Does Mass Culture Still Matter? And How Snoop Dogg Mastered Commerce, with Frank Cooper

Ben Smith and Max Tawny host a conversation with Frank Cooper, Visa's CMO and former Def Jam executive, exploring his influential career in business and marketing. Cooper reflects on hip hop's evolution from a niche genre to a mainstream cultural force, emphasizing its deep emotional connection with audiences. He discusses the challenges and opportunities in today's fragmented media landscape, highlighting the importance of aligning with cultural movements and influencers who resonate with a brand's values. The discussion also touches on the role of sports as a unifying cultural force and the strategic use of celebrity endorsements in marketing.

• Frank Cooper has been a significant figure in American culture and commerce for over three decades, contributing to the commercialization of hip hop and holding key marketing positions in major consumer and media brands.
• He has worked with influential companies such as Def Jam, Motown Records, PepsiCo, Buzzfeed, and currently serves as the CMO at Visa.
• Cooper's career trajectory highlights his ability to navigate and influence major cultural and business shifts, making him a pivotal figure in understanding and translating mass culture for the executive class.

"Frank has been a major figure in American culture and commerce for literally three decades and counting."

• This quote underscores Frank Cooper's long-standing influence and contribution to American culture and commerce.

"Frank got out of Harvard Law School in the early 90s and as would, you know, be a normal thing to do, went to work for Def Jam, which was then, you know, like a very new strange, edgy thing to work in hip hop."

• Frank Cooper's transition from Harvard Law to Def Jam highlights his unconventional career path and early involvement in the burgeoning hip hop industry.

• Hip hop's rise to mainstream prominence in the 90s was not inevitable, facing significant societal and political challenges.
• The genre provided empowerment and a sense of overcoming struggle, resonating with audiences during a time when traditional social institutions were weakening.
• Key artists and moments in hip hop during the 90s, such as LL Cool J, Public Enemy, and Jay Z, contributed to the genre's momentum and cultural dominance.

"When you look back on these things, it always looks inevitable to people. It's like, oh, you know, Def Jam or Hip hop rose to this level and it became mainstream, and it feels inevitable."

• This quote reflects the misconception of hip hop's rise as inevitable, highlighting the challenges faced during its early days.

"Hip hop, which is basically saying, how can you overcome struggle here? People who are basically saying, hey, you know what? We have nothing. Everything's been stripped away, but we're actually going to still figure out a way to move forward and thrive."

• The essence of hip hop as a genre that empowers individuals to overcome adversity and thrive despite challenges is captured in this quote.

• LL Cool J emphasized that the ability to evoke emotion and connection with the audience is what makes a great rapper, rather than technical skills alone.
• This perspective shifts the focus from traditional metrics of success to the emotional impact and timelessness of music.

"He said, only one thing mattered. He says what makes a great rapper is the extent to which they can actually extract from an audience a connection and emotion that makes them feel elevated."

• LL Cool J's insight into the importance of emotional connection in music highlights a key factor in creating lasting and impactful art.

"You can't unlock that. You may have a trendy song, you're in and out. You will never sustain a career that way, and people will never remember you, and your music will never become timeless unless you touch something that's already within people and you unlock that."

• This quote emphasizes the importance of unlocking and resonating with something intrinsic within people to achieve lasting success in music.

• The office environment at Def Jam was characterized by a sense of unpredictability, reflecting the broader cultural movement of hip hop.
• The music was deeply intertwined with other cultural expressions like graffiti and breakdancing, forming a comprehensive cultural movement.
• The rise of West Coast hip hop presented a challenge to Def Jam, but the label adapted and succeeded with artists like Montel Jordan and Warren G.

"The first thing you see when you come off the elevator was three people elevated behind the kind of bulletproof glass."

• This quote highlights the tense and unpredictable atmosphere at Def Jam, a reflection of the broader cultural challenges and uncertainties within the hip hop industry.

"It was much deeper than a song or an artist or even the music itself."

• This emphasizes the multifaceted nature of hip hop as a cultural movement, encompassing various art forms and social expressions beyond just music.

• Hip hop, like other musical genres, initially faced resistance but eventually became mainstream.
• The genre serves a deep cultural need, resonating with diverse audiences and providing a platform for self-expression.
• The convergence of culture and commerce was inevitable, with hip hop playing a pivotal role in bridging these two areas.

"Every single musical genre when it first came out was offensive to the status quo."

• This indicates the common historical pattern of new music genres facing initial resistance before gaining mainstream acceptance.

"The thing that I knew that it was serving was a deep cultural need."

• This highlights hip hop's role in addressing and expressing underlying cultural and social dynamics.

• The speaker's transition from Def Jam to PepsiCo was facilitated by the growing recognition of hip hop's cultural significance.
• The convergence of cultural movements with commerce became more apparent in the digital age, reducing the time it takes for cultural trends to become commercially viable.

"The leap for me was not that hard at that point, because what I believed... was that culture and commerce were always interconnected."

• This underscores the speaker's belief in the natural synergy between cultural movements like hip hop and commercial opportunities.

• The speaker reflects on their experience at AOL, noting the persistence of traditional business models despite technological disruptions.
• The current era is marked by self-development, with individuals seeking personal growth and advancement through various networks and opportunities.

"These entrenched institutions and models typically don't just go away."

• This highlights the resilience and adaptability of traditional business models in the face of technological change.

"I think we're in the era of self-development where people are now saying I have to fashion my own self."

• This captures the current cultural emphasis on individual growth and the pursuit of personal fulfillment.

• Influencer marketing represents both a continuation and evolution of celebrity endorsements, with a focus on genuine connections and community building.
• The ability to scale influence from small communities to large audiences is a key difference in today's marketing landscape.
• Successful influencers and celebrities, like Taylor Swift and Snoop Dogg, prioritize building deep connections with their audiences.

"You can find influencers who have campfire communities, which may seem small, but if you add them all up together, you can get to massive scale."

• This illustrates the shift from traditional celebrity influence to more grassroots, community-driven influence.

"I get up on the pedestal, and I start pulling everybody up with me."

• This quote from Snoop Dogg exemplifies the modern approach to influence, where success is shared and community-focused rather than centered solely on the individual.

• Snoop Dogg has transitioned from a cool figure in the 90s to a widely recognized and marketable star today.
• His collaboration with Martha Stewart marked a significant shift in his public image.
• Snoop Dogg is now considered brand safe and a reliable partner in the industry.

"Is Snoop Dogg actually, like, more famous today than he was even in the 90s or something like that? Like, to me, I think that something shifted maybe around the. That he did the Martha Stewart collaboration or something like that."

• This quote highlights the perception of Snoop Dogg's increased fame and marketability, especially after his collaboration with Martha Stewart.

"That's the shocking thing. I never would have predicted that, honestly. And I worked with him directly, and he was like, he's like, hey, Coop, you know, you're missing the boat. We've got a lot more to go."

• This quote emphasizes the unexpected transformation of Snoop Dogg into a mainstream, reliable, and brand-safe figure.

• Full funnel marketing aims to integrate brand marketing and performance marketing, which were previously considered separate.
• It addresses the non-linear storytelling and consumer journeys prevalent in today's media consumption.
• The approach seeks to create a coherent marketing strategy that aligns with real-life product discovery.

"Full funnel marketing is really solving for two problems. The first is that back in the day, brand marketing and performance marketing...were kind of separated."

• This quote explains the motivation behind full funnel marketing: to unify brand and performance marketing.

"Full funnel marketing is really all about how do we actually bring marketing together as one coherent strategy and then how do we actually do so in a way which is true to people's lives."

• This quote outlines the goal of full funnel marketing to create a strategy that resonates with consumers' real-life experiences.

• Modern marketing acknowledges that consumers encounter products through nonlinear paths.
• Example: A marketing campaign for Google Pixel involved various activities like a movie partnership, price promotions, and viral videos.
• The challenge is to connect these disparate marketing elements and measure their impact on sales.

"The nonlinear journey there is. You went to the movies to see Wicked. You came across an Arsenal sort of meme and you saw the phone was on sale."

• This quote illustrates a real-world example of a nonlinear consumer journey involving multiple touchpoints.

• Brands sometimes miss cultural moments by not engaging with influential figures like Beyonce.
• The fear of a celebrity overshadowing a brand can lead to missed opportunities.
• Cultural momentum cannot be stopped but can be leveraged for brand engagement.

"There's a moment in which Beyonce was the voice and symbol for a new generation of women. And if you recognize that piece of it, you could leverage that in a way that allows her to remain true to herself."

• This quote discusses the potential missed opportunity of aligning with a cultural icon like Beyonce.

• Visa's approach to influencer marketing involves creating platforms for multiple artists rather than relying on a single influencer.
• The focus is on understanding Visa's identity and target audiences rather than chasing trending influencers.
• Identifying cultural groups and their symbols, rituals, and influencers is more effective than using broad demographic categories.

"I'd rather build the platforms that allow multiple artists to come on there. But yeah, but we're still looking at influencers."

• This quote highlights Visa's strategy of creating platforms for diverse artists rather than depending on a single influencer.

"I do know that if you can identify a cultural group that is important to you, that I can move that. And I can think about the symbols and the rituals."

• This quote emphasizes the importance of understanding cultural groups and their unique characteristics in influencer marketing.

• Large companies often react quickly to emerging influencers without a strategic plan.
• This reactionary approach can lead to ineffective marketing efforts and missed opportunities for genuine engagement.

"It's a standard reflex reaction that you see a lot of large companies in large marketers pursue, which is what's hot. Let's fast forward, let's see if we can get that."

• This quote critiques the common practice of hastily engaging with trending influencers without a thoughtful strategy.

• The discussion emphasizes the challenge of marketing in a politically divided American culture.
• Marketers are encouraged to find commonalities that transcend political divisions, such as cultural elements and shared interests.
• Music and video gaming are highlighted as areas that can unite people beyond political affiliations.

"I think it's one of the most precarious moments in history for the United States, particularly in terms of the body politic and how we find some kind of commonality across the geographies of the United States."

• This quote highlights the current political division in the US and the challenge it poses to finding common ground in marketing.

"I'd rather play in that space. To me, it's a little bit of a beacon of light that there are things that bind us all together."

• The speaker prefers focusing on unifying elements in culture, such as music and gaming, to avoid political divisions in marketing strategies.

• Identifies sports, music, and lifestyle spaces as areas that gather people without political bias.
• Live sports are particularly noted for their ability to engage audiences and create community.
• The importance of finding non-political spaces for marketing is emphasized.

"When you look at soccer, you look at the NFL, I see community gathering around, and they're based on teams, cities, players. And that, to me, is another form of gathering and transcending these kind of political divisions."

• This quote underscores how sports serve as a unifying force, bringing people together regardless of political views.

• Discusses the transformation of Snoop Dogg from a musical icon to a marketable figure, emphasizing collaborations like with Martha Stewart.
• Highlights the importance of aligning with cultural figures who share the brand's values.
• Contrasts different approaches to engaging with cultural trends, from fast-paced to more strategic, long-term collaborations.

"Frank confirmed it and confirmed that he knows it and confirmed that it really started with the Martha Stewart collaboration that kind of like, actually opened up all of these opportunities for big brands and marketers to kind of capitalize on his charisma."

• This quote illustrates the strategic use of cultural icons in marketing to enhance brand appeal and reach.

• Sports are seen as one of the few remaining unifying cultural forces and safe investments for businesses.
• The resilience of sports to politicization makes it an attractive area for marketing.
• The conversation highlights the ongoing significance of sports in media, especially in live streaming and television.

"A big part of Frank's job, and you sort of heard him say that, is like frantically scanning the horizon for safe places to put money. And parts of the music industry are that. And sports is just absolutely at the top of it."

• This quote emphasizes the strategic importance of investing in sports due to its unifying nature and resistance to political divisions.

• Fans generally dislike the politicization of sports, preferring to keep politics separate from their sports experiences.
• Politicians often face negative reactions when attempting to engage with sports audiences.

"The majority fans truly hate it. They don't like sports being politicized at all. And they recoil at that."

• This quote highlights the strong preference among sports fans to keep sports apolitical, reinforcing the idea that sports serve as a neutral ground for community and marketing.