To code is to struggle! I interview Tech with Tim [Podcast #150]

In this episode of the Free Code Camp podcast, Quincy Larson interviews Tim Rousa, a software engineer and educator known for his Tech with Tim YouTube channel. They discuss the importance of embracing struggle and failure in programming, as it builds persistence and problem-solving skills. Tim shares his journey from learning programming at a young age to landing an internship at Microsoft through networking and leveraging his YouTube presence. He emphasizes the value of having clear goals and applying critical thinking to break down complex problems. Tim also reflects on his entrepreneurial experiences, learning from a startup that didn't achieve product-market fit, and his current focus on expanding his YouTube channel and educational content.

• Emphasizes the importance of being comfortable with failing and solving problems in programming.
• Programming involves encountering numerous bugs and errors and figuring out how to fix them.
• Beginners should focus on the process and the struggle rather than achieving perfection immediately.

"The most important thing is actually like to learn how to struggle and to be okay with failing and solving problems."

• Highlights the necessity of embracing failure as a part of the learning process in programming.

"Programming really is just running into a ton of different bugs and errors and like things not working how they should and figuring out how to fix them."

• Describes the essence of programming as a constant problem-solving activity.

• Discusses the appeal of Dubai for digital nomads, particularly for its zero taxes and ease of setting up a business.
• Dubai offers a modern, well-connected environment with English-speaking communities.

"I would say first zero taxes... also just kind of the convenience, the ease, uh like business here is very easy to set up."

• Explains the benefits of Dubai's tax system and business environment for entrepreneurs.

• Tim is involved in various projects, including a tech startup, a YouTube channel, and creating courses.
• He is exploring new ventures and considering coaching, running courses, and possibly starting a community.

"I'm doing the YouTube channel... doing some more content posting on some other platforms as well and then I'm always just looking for other side stuff to do."

• Illustrates Tim's diverse range of activities and his eagerness to explore new opportunities.

• Tim began programming at a very young age, driven by a strong interest in technology and building things.
• His journey started with playing Minecraft, which led to learning coding and running a Minecraft server.

"I was coding by the time I was 12 at least maybe even as early as 11... I started building like Minecraft plugins."

• Describes Tim's early exposure to programming through gaming and server management.

• Tim attributes his early interest in engineering and programming to his supportive family environment.
• His father, a civil engineer, played a significant role in nurturing his interest in technology.

"I was really fortunate to have an amazing family... always gave me opportunities to do pretty much anything that I wanted to."

• Emphasizes the supportive role of Tim's family in his early development and interests.

• Tim's experience running a Minecraft server sparked his entrepreneurial curiosity.
• He learned valuable lessons about trust and community management through real-life scenarios.

"I made my own Minecraft server... I guess what sparked the entrepreneurial curiosity."

• Highlights the connection between Tim's early entrepreneurial ventures and his later pursuits.

• Tim attended university but found the traditional lecture format ineffective for his learning style.
• He dropped out during the pandemic, preferring to learn independently and focus on his projects.

"I found that the teaching style... just wasn't an effective way to learn."

• Critiques the traditional educational system and explains his decision to leave college.

• Minecraft served as an educational tool, providing an early understanding of computer architecture.
• The game's mechanics, like Redstone, introduced basic logic and engineering concepts.

"You can build like an and gate or an orgate or a Norgate and like all that stuff in Minecraft using Redstone."

• Demonstrates how gaming can be a gateway to learning complex technical concepts.

• Balancing multiple commitments like assignments, YouTube, and social life can make attending every lecture impractical.
• Skipping classes allowed for more focused and effective self-directed learning, resulting in better grades.
• Some classes with engaging professors and unique content required attendance for full understanding.
• Networking with classmates provided information on essential in-class activities and surprise tests.

"For me, the more that I skipped class, the better grades I got because rather than just slacking off in that time, I was actually learning."

• Skipping lectures allowed for more productive use of time tailored to personal learning styles.

"I was smart enough to kind of build a network of people that were in every single class so they would tell me like important information that might not have been online."

• Building a network helped access critical information missed in classes.

• Started making YouTube videos as an extension of teaching coding at a summer camp.
• Developed a passion for teaching through positive feedback and engagement from viewers and students.
• Transitioned from random video postings to a focused effort on growing a YouTube channel.
• Gained exposure and followers through collaborations with platforms like freeCodeCamp.

"I was posting these YouTube videos just randomly not making any money from them but, you know, getting some views, kind of building that experience."

• Early YouTube efforts were driven by passion and a desire to share knowledge rather than monetary gain.

"I spent like a really long amount of time building out this coding specialty during that kind of planning phase I ended up creating about 20 YouTube videos."

• Initial YouTube content was part of a broader educational initiative to teach coding.

• Realized personal learning style was more effective outside traditional college settings.
• Already achieved career goals that college aimed to provide, such as landing an internship at Microsoft.
• Weighed the opportunity cost of continuing college against the benefits of focusing on YouTube and other ventures.
• Considered the option to return to college if needed in the future.

"I was now making a lot of money bluntly from my YouTube channel. I'd already landed an internship at Microsoft and all of the things that college was supposed to give me I pretty much already had."

• Achieving career milestones independently of college influenced the decision to leave.

"I ultimately just made the decision I really don't think I need this and if I do ever actually need it I can always just go back and finish it."

• Confidence in self-directed learning and career achievements led to the decision to leave college.

• Utilized a network built through YouTube to secure an interview at Microsoft.
• Prepared intensively for technical interviews using resources like LeetCode and AlgoExpert.
• The internship was offered through a unique hiring process tailored to individual qualifications rather than competition with peers.
• The pandemic shifted the internship to a remote format, altering the traditional experience.

"Microsoft actually reached out to me to do like a YouTube related piece of content... and I messaged the Microsoft person saying, 'Hey, look, I'm happy to do this thing with you but can you connect me with like any recruiter?'"

• Leveraged YouTube connections to secure an internship opportunity at Microsoft.

"After I passed the final interview with like the lead guy... he actually took me for an interview of the entire Microsoft office that we were in."

• The interview process was personalized, leading to a job offer without direct competition.

• Offered a substantial salary and benefits package for the internship, highlighting the value of the opportunity.
• The internship provided validation of skills and efforts, contributing to personal and professional credibility.
• Despite the pandemic, the internship experience underscored the importance of flexibility and adaptability in career paths.

"The salary was $7,350 per month... and they were going to pay for the housing, they were going to pay for like rental car, they going to pay for gym, like everything full a month in addition."

• The internship package was comprehensive, reflecting the high value placed on the role.

"You kind of know when you get one of those level of positions like you're kind of set for life at that point because you now have that like stamp on your resume."

• Securing a Microsoft internship provided significant career validation and future opportunities.

• The speaker discusses the balance between working remotely for Microsoft and managing personal projects like a YouTube channel.
• Remote work allowed for flexible scheduling, enabling the pursuit of multiple interests simultaneously.

"The team did a really good job at trying to give me a real decent experience working for Microsoft, and to be honest with you, it worked out well because then I had enough time since it was remote to work on my YouTube channel still and do other stuff."

• Remote work provides flexibility to manage both professional and personal projects effectively.

• The speaker completed an internship and one more semester of school before deciding to drop out.
• Post-dropout, the speaker engaged in entrepreneurial ventures, including working with Algo Expert and developing courses.

"I finished the internship and then I do one more semester of school, and at this point, I pretty much already know I'm going to drop out."

• The decision to drop out was made after securing validation through an internship, leading to entrepreneurial opportunities.

• The speaker observes a trend where young people avoid thinking more than necessary, a trait not exclusive to any specific generation.
• The speaker emphasizes the importance of critical thinking and problem-solving skills, especially in programming.

"When I would bring kids into this coding specialty, it was almost like the first 2 or 3 days was just rewiring their brain on how to think through the most basic things."

• Many young individuals lack critical thinking skills, which are essential for problem-solving in programming.

• Critical thinking involves breaking down complex problems into simpler, manageable parts.
• The speaker highlights the importance of understanding the problem and iteratively refining solutions.

"The first way that you can be able to think about something is to break it down into things that are easier to think about."

• Simplifying problems into smaller tasks is a fundamental skill for effective problem-solving.

• Deliberate practice involves having a clear goal and a structured approach to learning.
• The speaker stresses the importance of measuring progress and having a practical goal to guide practice.

"You have to have some kind of practical goal in mind... because if you don't know why and what the end result should be, you have no way to measure if you're actually making it in that direction."

• Setting clear goals and measuring progress are crucial for effective learning and improvement.

• Tutorial hell occurs when learners can follow along with tutorials but struggle to apply the knowledge independently.
• The speaker suggests interactive learning and actively engaging with material to overcome this challenge.

"You can't just watch the video; the video is there as a guide, but you should be following along, you should be pausing, challenging yourself."

• Active engagement and practice are necessary to transition from understanding tutorials to applying knowledge independently.

• Understanding the problem deeply and breaking it into smaller parts is crucial during coding interviews.
• The speaker advises talking through the thought process and eliminating edge cases early.

"I want to understand the problem as deeply as I possibly can. For me, the more difficult thing is understanding the problem and coming up with the theoretical solution than it is to write that in code."

• Thoroughly understanding the problem and articulating the thought process are key strategies for coding interviews.

• Python is recommended for beginners due to its simple syntax and extensive resources.
• The speaker emphasizes the importance of understanding why one wants to learn programming before choosing a language.

"I like recommending Python because it's the simplest to write and it's the closest to English, so for a complete beginner, it's the least overwhelming thing."

• Python's simplicity and readability make it an ideal starting point for new programmers.

• The choice of programming language is often debated, with Python frequently recommended for beginners.
• The importance of understanding the fundamentals rather than focusing solely on language choice.
• The tendency for beginners to get caught up in unnecessary complexities, such as toolchains and keyboards.

"Python's not always going to be the best thing to start with... there are other fantastic languages that are probably going to set you up better to land your first role."

• Different languages may offer better job prospects depending on industry demand.

"...the programming language is merely an implementation detail... the important thing is to understand what's actually happening under the hood."

• Emphasizes the importance of understanding core programming concepts over specific languages.

• Learning to code involves a lot of trial and error, and persistence is crucial.
• The struggle with bugs and errors is a significant part of the learning process.
• Building perseverance in coding can translate to other areas of life.

"The most important thing is actually to learn how to struggle and to be okay with failing and solving problems."

• Emphasizes the need to embrace failure as part of the learning process.

"To code is to struggle, to learn is to struggle."

• Highlights that struggle is an inherent part of learning and coding.

• Motivation is a critical factor in learning to code, more so than intelligence or mathematical ability.
• Historical examples of individuals learning to code with limited resources due to strong motivation.
• Children's ability to learn quickly is partly due to fewer distractions and a natural persistence.

"Any sufficiently motivated person can learn to code... if you're resourceful and you're patient, you'll figure it out."

• Motivation and resourcefulness are key to learning programming.

"I think one of the reasons why people have this perception of like kid geniuses... is just because you were passionate about it."

• Passion and time investment are significant factors in early success in coding.

• The approach to learning new technologies involves setting specific goals and understanding the purpose.
• Initial high-level overview followed by targeted learning based on specific objectives.
• The importance of applying knowledge through projects to solidify learning.

"I always start by attaching something that I want to do... so that I can look for specific pieces of information relative to that topic."

• Setting a clear goal helps focus the learning process.

"I want to apply it right away and I don't want to just get pure theory."

• Practical application is crucial to effectively learn new technologies.

• Structuring learning and goals around personal benchmarks rather than external competition.
• The importance of creating measurable goals to track progress.

"You can turn anything into a competition if you're competing with yourself."

• Encourages setting personal benchmarks for self-improvement.

"It sounds like you have a knack for taking things where there is no clear evaluation criteria and creating that forcing function."

• Highlights the ability to create personal metrics for success.

• The importance of validating ideas before extensive development in startups.
• Learning from failures and focusing on building essential features.
• The value of minimal viable products (MVPs) in testing market fit.

"You really shouldn't build anything unless you have a really, really good reason to build it."

• Emphasizes the necessity of having a clear purpose before building.

"I would try to code the least I possibly could... try to make the absolute minimum thing I could to validate and test the idea."

• Advocates for simplicity and efficiency in product development.

• The shift towards focusing on YouTube and content creation as a primary endeavor.
• Plans to scale content production and explore new opportunities within the platform.
• The significance of maintaining routines and productivity for personal and professional growth.

"My main focus has been getting a really good routine, build those habits back, get back to peak productivity."

• Highlights the importance of routine and productivity in achieving goals.

"I'm just going to see where I can kind of take it if I spend even just six months really investing."

• Plans to invest time and resources into expanding YouTube presence.