The Signal Scandal & DOGE Drama! (with Ben Smith and Nicholas Carlson) | More or Less #92

The discussion delves into the shifting sentiment around Elon Musk and Doge, with a mix of skepticism and admiration in Silicon Valley, highlighting the challenges Tesla faces and Musk's focus on other ventures like SpaceX. The conversation also explores the impact of AI on media, emphasizing its potential to streamline video and audio production while raising concerns about commoditization. The guests, Ben Smith and Nick Carlson, share insights on the intersection of tech and politics, critiquing the Trump administration's chaotic communication and the tech industry's strategic alignment with political powers. They also discuss the risks of over-promising in AI startups, referencing recent controversies.

• Discussion on how public sentiment towards Elon Musk is changing, particularly among swing voters who are becoming more negative.
• Evaluation of Musk's approach to managing Twitter (now X) by dismantling existing structures to identify necessary components.

"Sentiment on Elon is shifting in really interesting ways; the swing voters on Elon, I think, are turning a little more negative."

• The quote highlights the changing perception of Elon Musk, suggesting a growing negativity among those who were previously undecided.

"What Elon did at Twitter and or X was just rip everything out to see what needs to be plugged back in."

• This quote describes Musk's strategy at Twitter, emphasizing a radical approach to restructuring by removing existing elements to determine what is essential.

• A discussion on the misconception that Silicon Valley has about government projects, particularly those aimed at increasing efficiency.
• The contrast between the perceived role of technologists and the actual influence of lawyers with ideological motives.

"You guys in Washington, particularly the Democrats, have doed all wrong. It's really not an ideological project."

• This quote reflects the belief that Silicon Valley misunderstands the nature of government efficiency projects, viewing them as non-ideological.

"It's all lawyers who used to work for onto Santz who are executing incredibly well on this ideological project."

• The quote underscores the idea that lawyers, not technologists, are driving these projects with a clear ideological agenda.

• Exploration of the role of AI in media, including new tools like ChatGPT's video and image generators.
• Discussion on the potential impact of AI on journalism and media production.

"I've been playing around with so many new tools like the new ChatGPT video image generator that just launched this week."

• This quote indicates the exploration of AI tools in media, highlighting the technological advancements being integrated into journalism.

"I'd love to get Ben and Nick's point of view on where this whole industry goes."

• The quote expresses a desire to understand the future trajectory of AI's impact on the media industry from experts.

• Analysis of The Atlantic's approach to managing a significant news story involving a breach in communication among government officials.
• Consideration of the ethical and strategic decisions in reporting and marketing such a story.

"I was just very impressed with how the Atlantic handled everything from the story itself to the very consistent communication marketing of it."

• The quote praises The Atlantic's comprehensive handling of a major news story, emphasizing effective communication and marketing strategies.

"The moment when you start talking about marketing the story, I mean the stuff markets itself."

• This quote reflects the natural appeal and marketability of significant news stories, suggesting that the inherent interest drives engagement.

• Discussion on the use of the Signal app by government officials for secure communication.
• Examination of the implications of human error in the context of technological security.

"It's not weird to me that Signal is used by these types of people."

• The quote normalizes the use of Signal for secure communication among government officials, highlighting its practicality.

"This was human error, not a technology error."

• This quote clarifies that the breach was due to human mistake rather than a failure of the technology itself, emphasizing the importance of user vigilance.

• Insights into how entrepreneurs view media stories, focusing on potential traffic and subscriber growth.
• The contrast between journalistic and entrepreneurial priorities when dealing with news stories.

"You're thinking like an entrepreneur which, you know, fortunately maybe Jessica is."

• The quote highlights the entrepreneurial mindset of leveraging news stories for business growth, contrasting with traditional journalistic values.

"I would just think what an amazing story, right, and like this is crazy."

• This quote represents the journalistic focus on the story's value and intrigue rather than its marketability.

• Discussion about the possibility of Russian intelligence intercepting sensitive information due to poor security practices.
• Concerns about over-classification and unnecessary secrecy in government communications.
• Potential risks of leaking operational details that could compromise national security.

"What are the odds that the Russians are reading these as they come in? I don't know, one in three, one in four, they're not zero."

• The speaker speculates on the likelihood of Russian intelligence accessing sensitive communications, highlighting security vulnerabilities.

"If you're going to say we're going to try to kill this guy in this place in two hours and it's being displayed on the screen... I would assume they're gonna call up that guy and say hey you should watch out for that house."

• The quote illustrates the potential consequences of leaking sensitive military operations, emphasizing the need for secure communication.

• Insight into the editorial process and ethical considerations in publishing sensitive information.
• The importance of consulting with editors, lawyers, and stakeholders before publication.
• The role of transparency and communication with government officials before releasing a story.

"You start writing and then you do talk to... other editors... and then you figure out like what how our what's our risk level here."

• The quote describes the careful consideration and consultation involved in the journalistic process to assess risks and ethical implications.

"You obviously call for comment and tell them the story's coming and actually... the story had a comment from the White House verifying the chat."

• The speaker emphasizes the importance of transparency and seeking official comments to verify the information before publication.

• Examination of modern communication methods within government and their impact on perception.
• The balance between real-time communication and maintaining respect for government institutions.
• The risks of informal communication channels leading to embarrassing or compromising situations.

"The Trump folks communicate in modern ways... the fact that they communicate like normal people... is... an acceleration into the present."

• The quote highlights the shift towards modern, real-time communication methods in government, which can be both innovative and problematic.

"It just reveals a kind of normalcy actually to the... embarrassing internal conversations are there in any organization."

• The speaker notes that while some communications may be embarrassing, they reflect a level of normalcy and are not necessarily compromising national security.

• The role of media in shaping public perception and the challenges faced by journalists in the current political climate.
• The impact of high-profile stories on the credibility and trust in media institutions.
• The potential for media coverage to influence public opinion and political discourse.

"The story is obviously had huge... is resonating out here in the valley too... there's so much disdain for reporting and the press."

• The quote reflects the significant impact of media stories on public perception, especially in areas like Silicon Valley, where there may be skepticism towards the press.

"With good reporting... you have to reckon with the reality of this thing."

• The speaker asserts that despite any disdain for the press, well-reported stories demand acknowledgment and consideration of the facts presented.

• Discussion on the perception of Elon Musk and the Doge project in Silicon Valley and beyond.
• The division of opinions regarding Musk's effectiveness and the ideological implications of the Doge project.
• The challenges and potential inefficiencies of implementing ambitious projects in government.

"Sentiment is favorable out here for Doge I would say wouldn't you just I would say it's like 75% positive."

• The quote indicates a generally positive sentiment towards the Doge project in Silicon Valley, reflecting support for innovation and efficiency.

"It's interesting I was talking to... a prominent Silicon Valley person who was saying... it's really not an ideological project... they're just like working so hard to make government more efficient."

• The speaker shares insights into differing perspectives on the Doge project, suggesting a focus on efficiency rather than ideology.

• Exploration of the mixed sentiments towards Elon Musk in Silicon Valley.
• The admiration for Musk's entrepreneurial achievements contrasted with personal criticisms.
• The potential impact of Musk's ventures on his reputation and the perception of his capabilities.

"I would say not 75% but maybe 60/40 favorable to Elon out here... we just all love X out here in Silicon Valley."

• The quote captures the divided opinion on Elon Musk, with many in Silicon Valley admiring his achievements while acknowledging his controversial persona.

"A lot of people think that... but I don't like the guy seems like a jerk seems like a bad person."

• The speaker reflects on the personal criticisms of Musk, highlighting the complexity of public opinion towards him despite his business successes.

• Elon Musk is a significant figure in Silicon Valley, serving as a model for many entrepreneurs who view him as synonymous with innovation and entrepreneurship.
• There is a cultural notion that being anti-Elon is akin to being anti-innovation in Silicon Valley.
• Despite Tesla's challenges, Musk's ability to pivot and maintain influential connections keeps him relevant.

"It's hard to find a successful entrepreneur in Silicon Valley now who hasn't fashioned himself as an Elon."

• Musk's influence is pervasive in Silicon Valley, with many entrepreneurs emulating his approach.

"You kind of can't be anti-Elon in Silicon Valley because it would be like being anti-innovation and Entrepreneurship."

• Being against Musk is culturally seen as opposing the spirit of innovation.

• Tesla faces significant challenges, including competition from Chinese car makers and operational inefficiencies.
• The fate of Tesla in China is tied to political maneuvers, such as Musk's endorsement of Trump to gain leverage.
• Despite financial issues, Musk's wealth in Tesla and other ventures like SpaceX provides options for strategic pivots.

"Car companies are hard to begin with, and when you start not making enough cars, things go south very fast."

• Tesla's operational challenges are significant due to the nature of the car industry.

"The Chinese government hadn't and still hasn't given him approval to operate full self-driving in China."

• Political factors in China significantly impact Tesla's operations and strategy.

• Musk's financial backing comes from venture capitalists who are keen to maintain good relations for future deals.
• The influence of financial institutions and key individuals like Michael Grimes is crucial to Musk's ventures.
• Investors are hesitant to distance themselves from Musk due to the potential of future opportunities.

"The people Musk always has in his corner are the money men for lack of a better word."

• Financial backers play a crucial role in Musk's continued influence and success.

"There's just no venture capitalist who wants to be on bad terms with him either because they want in on the next deal."

• Maintaining favorable terms with Musk is strategically important for investors.

• Tech billionaires have attempted to align with political figures like Trump to secure favorable conditions for their businesses.
• There is a risk associated with aligning too closely with one political party due to potential swings in political power.
• Some business leaders, like Sacha, have opted to avoid public political endorsements to mitigate risks.

"There's a sense when you talk to some of the people around these Tech billionaires that they're like, 'Oh, we finally solved politics.'"

• Tech leaders believe political alliances can simplify business operations, though this is risky.

"It's unclear to me why Sacha didn't show up to the photo, and I think it's very possible Elon did not want him on the stage."

• Strategic political decisions by tech leaders are influenced by complex interpersonal and business dynamics.

• The role of government in business is increasing, with policies affecting which companies succeed or fail.
• Executives are spending more time in Washington to influence decisions that impact their industries.
• The government's involvement is seen as a mixed economy approach, where political connections can determine business success.

"We're sort of headed into a more mixed economy, right in which the government has a huge role."

• The government's role in business is expanding, affecting industry dynamics.

"Executives who cozy up to the party of power get more money, and their businesses do better."

• Political alliances can significantly impact business success due to government influence.

• Some AI companies have been accused of misleading practices, such as false claims about clients and revenue.
• The case of 11x highlights issues in the tech industry where companies may exaggerate their success to attract investors.
• Similar situations have occurred in other companies, such as Aussie Media, where financial misrepresentations were found.

"TechCrunch had a story about an AI company called 11x, saying they had customers they didn't have."

• Misrepresentation of business success is a significant issue in the tech industry.

"They were misleading in how they calculated their revenue because they kept you on an annual contract if you were there for three months."

• Companies may use deceptive practices to inflate their financial performance and attract investment.

• Discussion on fraudulent practices in media and tech startups, focusing on misrepresentations to investors and customers.
• A notable case is Carlos Watson's conviction for securities fraud, highlighting the rarity of such convictions in the media business.
• Comparisons drawn with Enron and Groupon regarding inflated revenue reporting.

"Carlos Watson was convicted of securities fraud, which is hard, and the revenue was kind of real, just the media wasn't real."

• This quote emphasizes the unusual nature of the fraud where the revenue was somewhat legitimate but misrepresented, unlike typical media fraud cases.

• Companies often inflate their customer base by including trial users as part of their revenue calculations.
• The use of logos without proper permission is common, misleading stakeholders about company endorsements.

"They're calculating their annualized recurring revenue based on people that are not only full-time customers but also people that are in their trial."

• This quote illustrates the deceptive practice of including non-paying trial users in revenue metrics, misleading investors about the company's financial health.

• AI technology is becoming commoditized, with numerous options available for various applications, reducing the uniqueness of individual AI offerings.
• The influx of venture capital into AI has led to a saturation of similar startups, particularly in legal AI services.

"If you want to find a tech technology that can take a video and make it so your mouth looks like it's speaking a foreign language, you have 20 options."

• The quote highlights the commoditization of AI technology, where advanced features are widely available, diminishing competitive advantage.

• The rise of AI tools, such as image generators, poses a threat to traditional creative roles like graphic designers.
• These tools offer high-quality outputs that can be used for various media applications, challenging the necessity of human creativity in these areas.

"You could put a picture of a product like this Topo Chico and just upload a photo and say put a young 20s something girl at the beach drinking a Topo Chico, and it'll give you options that look perfect."

• This quote demonstrates the capability of AI to produce creative content quickly and efficiently, impacting the demand for human designers.

• AI is transforming media production by making video and audio production cheaper and more accessible.
• Tools like Google App Script allow for the creation of custom AI applications for media tasks, enhancing productivity without extensive technical knowledge.

"For honestly, the place that's most immediately valuable is video and audio production; it just makes those things cheaper and easier."

• The quote underscores AI's role in reducing the cost and complexity of media production, democratizing access to high-quality production tools.

• While AI offers significant benefits, sharing successful implementations across teams can be challenging.
• There's potential for rapid development and deployment of AI tools, but maintaining a competitive edge can be difficult due to ease of replication.

"I have a little bit of success in my little like using ChatGPT or Gemini to do something, and it's hard to communicate that."

• This quote highlights the difficulty in disseminating AI success stories within organizations, pointing to a need for better integration and communication strategies.

• AI is seen as a tool to enhance journalistic practices, particularly in fact-gathering and connection-building.
• The focus remains on human-centric tasks that AI cannot easily replicate, preserving the core values of journalism.

"Those two ends are very hard for AI to do; everything in the middle is sort of up for grabs, and those two ends are the fun."

• This quote reflects the belief that while AI can handle many tasks, the essential human elements of journalism remain irreplaceable, ensuring the profession's integrity.