Nisha Anand and Experimental Leader (Podcast Recording)

In the latest episode of "The Experimental Leader," host Melanie Parrish introduces her co-host, Mel Rutherford, and welcomes guest Nisha Anand, CEO of dream.org. They discuss leadership, change management, and the importance of experimenting with leadership styles. Nisha shares her experiences in fostering bipartisan collaboration for social justice, emphasizing the need for authentic communication and understanding differing perspectives. She highlights dream.org's success with the First Step Act, which has significantly reduced incarceration rates. The conversation also explores the challenges and strategies in leading diverse teams and promoting equity in policy-making.

• The podcast focuses on leadership and how leaders can experiment in their roles.
• Hosted by Melanie Parrish, it explores using a scientific mindset in leadership.
• Melanie introduces Mel Rutherford, her co-host, who is in a leadership role at McMaster University.

"Welcome to the Experimental Leader, a podcast that takes a look at the ways leaders are experimenting in their own work."

• The podcast aims to provide insights into leadership through experimentation.

• Melanie discusses the importance of creating space for others in leadership roles.
• She reflects on the challenges of collaboration and adjusting expectations.
• Emphasizes the need to move away from a "my way is the best way" mindset.

"I'm thinking about making space in my company for others... how do I collaborate better?"

• Melanie is focused on improving her collaboration skills and making room for others' contributions.

• Mel shares insights on conducting effective feedback meetings.
• Stress on avoiding "gotcha" meetings and providing agendas beforehand.
• Encourages focusing on a few key issues rather than overwhelming employees.

"This should not be a gotcha meeting... give them some information ahead of time."

• Mel believes in preparing employees for feedback meetings to enhance their performance.

• Nisha Anand is introduced as a guest, known for her work in social justice and leadership.
• She has a background as a grassroots activist and is the CEO of Dream.org.

"Joining us today is Nisha Anand, a true boundary Buster, Common Ground Creator, and non-violent Culture Creator."

• Nisha's diverse experiences in activism and leadership are highlighted.

• Nisha discusses the importance of managing change within organizations.
• Reflects on her journey to becoming CEO and the unexpected challenges faced.
• Emphasizes the need for leaders to prepare teams for change and lead through it.

"I've been thinking a lot lately... change management, we can all get better as leaders and experiment with that."

• Nisha is focused on improving change management skills to better support her team.

• Leadership involves constant learning and adaptation.
• Effective collaboration requires openness to others' ideas and contributions.
• Feedback meetings should be constructive and not overwhelming.
• Change management is a crucial skill for leaders to navigate unexpected challenges.

• Dream.org is a national non-profit organization focused on social justice, specifically Criminal Justice Reform and Climate Justice.
• The organization emphasizes technology as a key sector for future-focused, solution-oriented initiatives.
• Dream.org aims to close prison doors and open doors of opportunity, working on policy writing and bill passing.

"Dream.org is a national non-profit social justice organization. We work on Criminal Justice Reform, Climate Justice, and we think of Technology as one of the most important future-focused, solutions-oriented sectors."

• Dream.org believes in making large-scale changes without further polarizing the country by bringing people together to solve tough problems, focusing on bipartisan legislation.

"We at our core believe that you can make change at scale, big huge change at scale, without having to further polarize the country. In fact, you can bring people together to solve these tough problems."

• The First Step Act is a significant bipartisan legislative achievement of Dream.org, passed during the Trump Administration, started in the Obama Administration.
• The organization faced challenges with a Republican-controlled Congress but prioritized the immediate needs of prisoners over political convenience.

"Our biggest win to date would be a federal piece of legislation, the First Step Act, which we passed during the Trump Administration. We started working on it during the Obama Administration."

• The act resulted in the release of 20,000 people, showcasing major bipartisan support with an 89-vote majority in the Senate.

"Twenty thousand people have come home from that one piece of legislation, and we did that with a huge level of bipartisan support."

• Authenticity is crucial in building bipartisan partnerships; understanding and respecting different motivations (whys) is essential.
• Different stakeholders can have varying motivations but still work towards a common goal without needing to align on every issue.

"So for Criminal Justice Reform, I'm come from a long history of activism... Republicans in red states, the fiscal conservatives... their why is about how they can legislate and not raise taxes, but we still have common ground."

• Recognizing and respecting each side's motivations without needing to persuade them entirely is key to successful collaboration.

"I don't need them to care about my why, and they don't need me to care about their why, but we need to understand it."

• Successful partnerships involve mutual change and understanding, allowing for different perspectives to coexist and influence one another.
• Being open to understanding opposing views can lead to greater empathy and successful outcomes.

"The best partnerships mean you both change by knowing each other, and part of what I feel is wrong with the polarization in our country right now is we refuse to even be touched by anyone that's a little different."

• Finding common ground, even in disagreements, is crucial for honest and consistent dialogue.

"Find that place and you'll be moved and you'll be touched, and you actually are being more honest and more consistent with your perspective."

• Many people are incarcerated for reasons that are now considered unjust, such as non-violent drug offenses, especially as marijuana becomes legal in many places.
• Dream.org and its partners believe that a significant number of individuals should not be incarcerated, and reforms are necessary to address these injustices.

"My perspective is there are way too many people inside who shouldn't be inside, and I'd say everyone that came to the table felt that too."

• The organization seeks to address these injustices through legislative reforms and advocacy.

"There's easy stuff to look at, like non-violent drug offenses. Marijuana is now legal in most places; why are so many people still in prison for small offenses?"

• The First Step Act introduced reforms to reduce sentences for non-violent drug offenses and provide incentives for rehabilitation.
• The act emphasized "good time credits" for prisoners who show rehabilitation and redemption through courses, encouraging better reintegration into society.
• It addressed the high recidivism rate by ensuring released individuals met specific criteria, leading to a nearly 50% lower recidivism rate than the national average.
• The 1994 crime bill contributed to mass incarceration with mandatory minimums and limited sentencing discretion, requiring bipartisan efforts to reverse its effects.
• The First Step Act was a starting point for further reforms, with states adopting similar measures to address issues at the federal level.

"There's some easy things like that that a large part we need to get people home."

• This quote highlights the need to release individuals serving excessively long sentences for non-violent offenses, particularly marijuana-related offenses.

"Most people in prison, the majority are coming home one day, and so the question is do you want them to come home better or worse?"

• It underscores the importance of rehabilitation in prisons to ensure individuals return to society improved rather than worsened.

"For years, we were never able to do that... our population went up a lot more than it needed to without crime going down in the same way."

• Reflects on the failure of past policies like the 1994 crime bill, which increased incarceration rates without a corresponding decrease in crime.

• Race is a critical factor in criminal justice reform, with organizations like dream.org emphasizing equity in their policies.
• The Equal Act addresses the sentencing disparity between crack and powder cocaine, which historically affected racial minorities disproportionately.
• Dream.org uses a Venn diagram approach combining progressive values, radical inclusivity, and equity to create holistic solutions.
• The organization ensures that policies consider the disproportionate impact on specific communities, particularly along racial and class lines.

"Race is absolutely a piece of it. It's what you can count on my team to bring to the table to talk about."

• Highlights the commitment to addressing racial disparities in legislation and ensuring equitable outcomes.

"The only thing that was different was pretty much the race of the people using it."

• Points out the racial bias in sentencing laws, particularly the crack versus powder cocaine disparity.

• Engaging across political lines is essential for achieving reforms, despite differing principles.
• Conversations with Republicans revealed differing views on issues like student loan debt, which are influenced by individual rights and personal choices.
• Understanding diverse perspectives is crucial for finding common ground and advancing reforms.
• Personal anecdotes illustrate the challenges and surprises in navigating bipartisan discussions.

"I have so many... The one that came to mind though right as you were talking was on student loans."

• Introduces the challenge of finding bipartisan support for student loan reform, despite initial assumptions of its universality.

"It is very much an individual rights issue that you as an individual can choose if your kid is going to go to college or not."

• Reflects the Republican perspective on student loans, emphasizing personal choice and responsibility over collective financial support.

"It made me understand why somebody in Middle America might not want to because they chose something very different."

• Demonstrates the importance of understanding different viewpoints to effectively engage in bipartisan dialogue and reform efforts.

• Discussion on the impact of student loans and the notion of individual rights.
• Exploration of alternative methods to support education without loan forgiveness.
• Mention of New Mexico's initiative using the lottery for Opportunity Scholarships.

"I thought it was such an interesting post because I wouldn't have thought it either, but I think that individual rights thing is a really good thing to remember."

• Highlights the importance of considering individual rights in discussions about student loans.

"New Mexico is doing a really good job. They've got the everyone who's a New Mexico resident can get the opportunity scholarship."

• Example of an alternative approach to student loan forgiveness, emphasizing state-level initiatives.

• Emphasis on the importance of trust and experimental approaches in leadership.
• Discussion on the challenges of developing leaders within an organization.
• Introduction of the "one-way door" and "two-way door" decision-making framework inspired by Amazon.

"I think the number one thing is trust and the folks that you hire, the folks right below me, that's been the hardest part."

• Trust is identified as a crucial component in leadership and organizational development.

"We very much are an experimental organization. We have this model where we do want everybody to experiment and so I have to really embrace that as a leader."

• The organization encourages experimentation as a method for growth and innovation.

"Any decisions that are two-way door decisions, let everybody make them from the top all the way down to the bottom."

• The "two-way door" decision-making model allows for flexibility and encourages decentralized decision-making.

• Overview of the organization's mission and how individuals can get involved.
• Encouragement for people to join and support the organization's initiatives.
• Emphasis on bipartisan collaboration and reducing polarization.

"We are building our membership base in several different states that we're passing legislation."

• The organization is actively expanding its membership to support legislative efforts.

"If any of the like way that we do things sounds interesting to you, join dream.org."

• Invitation for listeners to become involved with the organization and its mission.

• Encouragement for listeners to seek common ground and foster collaboration.
• Promotion of Melanie Parrish's book and its relevance to leadership and innovation.
• Final thoughts on the importance of experimentation in leadership.

"I challenge you to look around in your world and see where you need to be creating common ground and making space."

• Encourages listeners to apply the principles of collaboration and common ground in their own lives.

"Go to book.experimentalleader.com and you can get a digital copy of my book for just 4.95."

• Promotion of a special offer for listeners to access Melanie Parrish's book on leadership.