Joe Rogan Experience #2292 - Josh Waitzkin

Joe Rogan and his guest, Josh Waitzkin, discuss the beauty and intricacy of Brazilian jiu-jitsu, highlighting the fluidity and technique exemplified by renowned practitioners like Marcelo Garcia. They delve into the parallels between martial arts and other disciplines, emphasizing the importance of learning through experience and embracing challenges. Waitzkin shares insights from his transition from chess prodigy to martial artist and surfer, reflecting on the interconnectedness of various arts and the value of a beginner's mindset. The conversation also touches on the potential impacts of AI on society, stressing the need for adaptability and humility in the face of rapid technological advancements.

• Jiu-jitsu is not only a martial art but a beautiful form of expression, especially for those who practice it at a high level. The complexity and fluidity of jiu-jitsu make it a unique discipline.
• Practitioners like Marcelo Garcia exemplify the beauty of jiu-jitsu through their ability to transition smoothly during scrambles and maintain control in various situations.
• The philosophy of spending time in transitions rather than static positions is emphasized, as it allows for greater adaptability and mastery.

"Marcelo is probably one of the most beautiful guys to watch because he just takes advantage of these scrambles in this really beautiful way like fast and slippery, and when the opponents react, he reacts in the other way."

• Marcelo Garcia's style is characterized by his ability to capitalize on scrambles, demonstrating the artistry and technical mastery of jiu-jitsu.

"He spends his whole jiu-jitsu life in the scramble in transition, and that was really a philosophy of his."

• Garcia's philosophy emphasizes the importance of transitions, which are key to achieving mastery in jiu-jitsu.

• Transition and movement are crucial in martial arts, allowing practitioners to maintain control and surprise opponents.
• In striking sports, footwork and positioning are vital to gaining an advantage over opponents, as demonstrated by Vasili Lomachenko's unique style.
• The ability to create frames and options in transitional spaces is likened to the work of illusionists, who have more frames and options than their audience.

"The in-between is where the real virtuosity happens."

• The concept of virtuosity in martial arts is linked to the mastery of transitions and movements, rather than static positions.

"Vasili Lomachenko... his ability to give you all sorts of different reads is incredible. I mean, he won a world title I think in his fourth pro fight."

• Lomachenko's footwork and movement set him apart from other fighters, showcasing the importance of transitions in striking sports.

• Eddie Bravo's contributions to jiu-jitsu include creative techniques and systems, particularly the rubber guard, which caught opponents off guard.
• The development of new techniques and systems can lead to significant advantages, especially when opponents are unfamiliar with them.
• The evolution of jiu-jitsu involves breaking away from traditional dogmas, such as the initial resistance to leg locks.

"Eddie Bravo had a pretty significant contribution to jiu-jitsu because he was so creative in some of his attacks and some of the things that he developed particularly off his back."

• Bravo's creativity in jiu-jitsu has led to the development of new techniques and systems that surprise opponents.

"There was so much close-mindedness about leg locks... the leg lock game was outside of the conceptual scheme to so many jiu-jitsu guys."

• The initial resistance to leg locks highlights the importance of innovation and breaking away from traditional dogmas in jiu-jitsu.

• Early success without facing challenges can lead to a brittle relationship with success and hinder personal growth.
• Experiencing failure and challenges is crucial for developing resilience and achieving true potential.
• The journey from self-expression to self-consciousness, as experienced by Josh Waitzkin, illustrates the complexities of personal growth and the impact of external perceptions.

"If you win too fast too young, you can just develop this brittle relationship to success and to work."

• Early success without facing challenges can lead to a fragile understanding of success and hinder personal growth.

"I moved from self-expression to self-consciousness to being locked up."

• Waitzkin's journey from self-expression to self-consciousness highlights the complexities of personal growth and the impact of external perceptions.

• Embracing weaknesses and continuously improving is essential for success in any discipline.
• The concept of targeting weaknesses is emphasized in chess, where opponents exploit weaknesses until they are addressed.
• Developing a mindset focused on continuous improvement and embracing challenges leads to long-term success.

"If I didn't take on my weakness, I got my ass kicked, and I felt pain."

• Embracing weaknesses and continuously improving is essential for success, as failing to address weaknesses leads to negative consequences.

"I love training. I love pushing my limits as a way of life in whatever I'm doing."

• A mindset focused on continuous improvement and embracing challenges leads to long-term success and personal growth.

• The ability to transition and adapt to new challenges is crucial for personal growth and avoiding stagnation.
• Injuries and physical limitations in martial arts necessitate the need for transitioning to new activities and interests.
• Life is full of challenges and opportunities, and the ability to embrace new projects and interests leads to a fulfilling life.

"If you don't have this ability to constantly take on new projects and be excited by different things, you're gonna have a shallow life."

• The ability to transition and adapt to new challenges is crucial for personal growth and avoiding stagnation.

"I had to move on from jiu-jitsu not on my own terms because I ruptured my L4/05 disc."

• Injuries and physical limitations in martial arts necessitate the need for transitioning to new activities and interests.

• Discussion about a period where the speaker couldn't walk but could ski due to the angle of skiing.
• Skiing became a way to get a "fix" despite injury, highlighting the speaker's determination and passion for skiing.

"I couldn't walk but I could ski because of the angle."

• The speaker explains a unique situation where skiing was possible despite being unable to walk, indicating the specific physical dynamics involved.

• Mention of athletes like Eddie Bravo and Aljamain Sterling receiving artificial discs to continue their sports careers.
• Technological advancements in medicine allow athletes to recover and return to high-level competition after severe injuries.

"Eddie Bravo got a fake disc in his lower back, a titanium disc, and he's able to train again."

• This quote illustrates the use of medical technology to replace damaged body parts, enabling athletes to continue training and competing.

• Eddie Bravo's techniques such as the rubber guard and twister are highlighted as innovative and challenging for those unfamiliar with them.
• Jeremiah Vance, an adept practitioner of Bravo's techniques, demonstrates the effectiveness and complexity of these moves.

"Jeremiah Vance...has incredible leg dexterity and his technique is so sharp."

• The quote emphasizes the advanced skills and unique techniques employed by Jeremiah Vance, showcasing the creativity in Eddie Bravo's jiu-jitsu style.

• Ryan Hall's jiu-jitsu-heavy style in MMA makes him vulnerable against world-class strikers.
• The necessity of having well-rounded skills in MMA, including striking, is discussed.

"His jiu-jitsu is off the charts, but his standup is not at the level of his jiu-jitsu."

• This highlights the imbalance in Ryan Hall's skill set, which can be a disadvantage in the diverse demands of MMA.

• Marcelo Garcia's unique approach to training, focusing on his own style rather than studying opponents.
• His ability to learn quickly and adapt during competitions is noted.

"Marcelo never studied anyone's game...he would never study anyone's tape."

• The quote reflects Marcelo Garcia's confidence in his own abilities and his intuitive approach to learning and adapting in real-time.

• Ryan Hall's extensive history of surgeries and injuries, which have impacted his career.
• The physical toll of high-level sports and the resilience required to continue competing.

"I think he's had 23 surgeries."

• This quote underscores the significant physical challenges Ryan Hall has faced throughout his career.

• Discussion on the importance of weightlifting and tailored training regimens to enhance performance in sports.
• Observation of advanced training methods used by professional sports teams like the Boston Celtics.

"I did a lot of weightlifting consistent with the movement patterns of the arts I was training in."

• The speaker describes a strategic approach to weightlifting, aligning exercises with specific sports movements for optimal performance.

• Exploration of the thrill and challenges of fixed-gear biking in New York City.
• The speaker's transition from biking to surfing and the risks involved in extreme sports.

"Why would you ever get on a bike with no brakes?"

• This question highlights the perceived risk and unconventional nature of fixed-gear biking.

• The speaker's passion for foiling and its technical complexities compared to traditional surfing.
• The interconnectedness of different sports and the pursuit of mastery.

"Foiling is much more abundant...you can replicate conditions."

• The quote explains the advantages of foiling, such as the ability to practice and refine techniques more consistently than in surfing.

• Discussion on how skills and principles from one discipline can be applied to others.
• The importance of learning in a way that connects various aspects of life and different fields.

"You can learn chess in a language which connects to all of life."

• This quote emphasizes the value of learning in a holistic manner, allowing for the transfer of skills across different areas.

• The impact of early fame and personal challenges on the speaker's growth and exploration of new interests.
• The journey from preconscious to postconscious awareness in personal and professional life.

"I love chess...I love the battle of the thing."

• The speaker reflects on the pure enjoyment and passion for chess before external factors complicated the experience.

• A personal account of a near-death experience during hypoxic breath training.
• The speaker's renewed commitment to living life fully and embracing new experiences.

"I relate to myself now like I've died and I'm living."

• This profound statement reflects the speaker's transformation and appreciation for life following a life-threatening event.

• The magnetic pull of the ocean and its role in shaping the lives of surfers.
• The ocean as a living entity that demands respect and adaptability.

"You can't dominate the ocean at all; you have to receive her."

• The quote captures the humility and respect required to engage with the ocean, highlighting its power and unpredictability.

• The role of wave pools in revolutionizing surf training by providing consistent conditions for practice.
• Comparison of high-rep learning in wave pools to traditional low-rep ocean surfing.

"Wave pools have revolutionized surf training."

• This statement highlights the significant impact of wave pools on the ability to practice and refine surfing techniques.

• The concept of unlearning as a key to high-level learning and the advantages children have in this regard.
• Observations on how children approach learning with fewer preconceived notions and blocks.

"Children don't have to unlearn that; they haven't learned it in the first place."

• This insight explains why children often learn faster, as they are free from the constraints and biases that adults may have.

• The discussion begins by contrasting the rigid, controlled approach of some adults to learning with the free, unrestrained play of children.
• The importance of embracing failure and learning without egoic blocks is emphasized as essential for personal growth and adapting to new challenges.
• The conversation highlights the need for adults to rediscover a post-conscious freedom in learning, akin to the natural learning style of children.

"The way to learn on the ocean is to not control it, to embrace it, to listen to it, to observe it, to feel it, to let it envelop you."

• This quote underscores the importance of letting go of control to truly learn and adapt, especially in dynamic environments like the ocean.

"Having the freedom to learn without egoic blocks is...one of the most important things that we need to cultivate."

• This highlights the cultural necessity of learning without ego, particularly in a rapidly changing world.

• The conversation explores the rapid advancement of AI and its implications for society, particularly in areas where AI surpasses human capabilities.
• The historical context of AI in chess is used to illustrate how AI can quickly outperform humans, challenging traditional skills and expertise.
• The discussion touches on the psychological impact of AI's capabilities, prompting a need for humans to adapt and redefine their learning and problem-solving approaches.

"Alpha Zero was able to, without being taught anything about humans playing chess, within three hours of experimentation, be stronger than any human or computer in history."

• This quote illustrates the unprecedented speed and capability of AI, challenging human notions of expertise and mastery.

"We are going to be living in a world where AI is better at everything than we are."

• This statement reflects the inevitability of AI surpassing human abilities in various domains, necessitating a reevaluation of human roles and learning methods.

• The discussion delves into the psychological challenges posed by AI, including the need for humans to overcome resistance to new paradigms.
• There's an emphasis on the humility required to accept that AI may become the apex intelligence, altering human self-perception and societal structures.
• The potential for AI to manipulate and control human behavior is explored, raising ethical and existential concerns.

"We have to become like children...in how we relate to learning."

• This quote emphasizes the need for a child-like openness and adaptability in learning to cope with the rapid changes brought by AI.

"We will have to admit that we are no longer the apex intelligence on the planet."

• This reflects the humbling realization that AI may surpass human intelligence, requiring a shift in how humans perceive their place in the world.

• The conversation presents a dual perspective on AI's potential impact: a utopian future of abundance and a dystopian scenario of control and manipulation.
• The potential for AI to improve quality of life through efficient resource allocation is acknowledged, alongside the risks of AI being used for manipulation and control.
• The ethical implications of AI development, particularly the need for safety measures and responsible use, are discussed.

"Elon says his estimation is there's an 80 to 90% chance it'll have a radically positive impact on society."

• This quote presents a hopeful perspective on AI's potential to improve human life, though it is tempered by the recognition of significant risks.

"In the hands of broken people, it's much easier to destroy than to create."

• This highlights the potential dangers of AI if misused, emphasizing the need for ethical considerations and safeguards.

• The discussion stresses the need for individuals and society to cultivate adaptability and the ability to reinvent themselves in response to technological changes.
• The concept of dynamic quality, as opposed to static quality, is introduced as a necessary mindset for thriving in a rapidly changing world.
• The potential for widespread job loss due to AI is acknowledged, prompting a need for new approaches to work and identity.

"We need to train at the art of rediscovery."

• This quote underscores the importance of being able to adapt and reinvent oneself in the face of continuous change.

"The pace of change is going to be radically accelerating for the rest of our lives."

• This statement highlights the urgency of developing adaptability and resilience to navigate a future defined by rapid technological advancements.

• The conversation explores the potential need for universal basic income as AI disrupts traditional employment, while also considering the psychological impact of such a shift.
• Concerns are raised about the loss of personal agency and identity if people become dependent on state-provided income without meaningful work.
• The importance of finding new sources of purpose and fulfillment in a post-work society is emphasized.

"I worry about people being dependent upon checks from the state and not having agency."

• This quote reflects concerns about the psychological impact of universal basic income on individual identity and purpose.

"What do dudes do when they have nothing to do?"

• This question highlights the potential challenges of maintaining personal fulfillment and motivation in a world where traditional work is no longer necessary.

• Emphasizes the importance of being grounded in feedback loops in training and decision-making.
• Suggests creating a "game tape" for decisions to objectively assess their outcomes.
• Encourages letting go of decisions when the initial reasons for making them are no longer valid.

"We need to track our decisions and we need to see objectively when they are good and when they're bad."

• Highlights the necessity of objective self-assessment in improving decision-making.

• Focuses on understanding individuals' patterns of success and failure.
• Stresses the need to respect and nurture the unique blend of brilliance and dysfunction in individuals.
• Rejects a one-size-fits-all coaching approach, emphasizing deep listening and observation.

"I love working with people who want to take themselves on, so it begins with them being all in on the process."

• Emphasizes that true coaching starts when individuals are committed to self-improvement.

• Discusses the interwoven nature of brilliance and dysfunction.
• Highlights the delicate process of nurturing genius while managing dysfunction.
• Warns against alienating individuals from their natural self-expression.

"All of our most brilliant creations are interwoven with the dysfunctional parts of our mind."

• Acknowledges the complexity of human creativity and the importance of embracing imperfections.

• Explores the value of learning from different styles to expand one’s repertoire.
• Reflects on personal experiences in chess and the impact of coaching styles on self-expression.
• Encourages learning from both attackers and defenders in chess for a comprehensive understanding.

"You can learn Karpov through Gasparov."

• Illustrates the idea of learning defensive strategies by studying aggressive players.

• Reflects on how personal crises and losses lead to greater insights and personal growth.
• Emphasizes the importance of embracing and learning from failures.
• Discusses the transformative power of catastrophic events in shaping one’s life journey.

"Every big loss I'm grateful for now and led to the biggest wins and led to the biggest insights and transitions."

• Highlights the value of adversity in personal development and self-discovery.

• Focuses on discovering individual paths rather than imposing pre-defined methods.
• Stresses the importance of understanding psychological aspects in coaching.
• Highlights the role of a coach in facilitating self-discovery and personal growth.

"I don't go in thinking like this is the way you should do it. I don't believe that I know what they should do."

• Emphasizes the importance of personalized coaching and the rejection of rigid methodologies.

• Discusses the relationship between pain, learning, and genius.
• Highlights how pain and competitive nature contribute to greatness.
• Reflects on personal and observed experiences of competitive individuals.

"Marcelo had a real tragedy... all of his pain is with him every moment."

• Illustrates how personal pain and experiences shape learning and performance.

• Warns against becoming static in success and the dangers of sticking to outdated mental models.
• Encourages continuous adaptation and avoiding complacency.
• Discusses the importance of maintaining dynamic quality in various fields.

"Some early success creates you make a framework... and you're not living with dynamic quality."

• Highlights the importance of evolving and adapting to maintain success and relevance.

• Advocates for embracing challenges and discomfort as a path to growth.
• Encourages seeing difficulty as an opportunity for development.
• Reflects on personal routines and practices that incorporate discomfort.

"Hard is beautiful. Living on the other side of pain, that's really valuable."

• Emphasizes the value of enduring and overcoming challenges for personal growth.

• Stresses the importance of being on the journey of self-improvement, regardless of current skill level.
• Encourages engaging in objective arenas to foster growth and learning.
• Highlights the importance of being grounded in reality amidst increasing complexity.

"It doesn't matter how good you are at something, it matters that you're on the road, you're on the journey."

• Emphasizes the significance of continuous learning and self-improvement as a lifelong journey.

• Discusses the infectious nature of passion and dedication to an art or craft.
• Reflects on personal experiences of deep love and commitment to various arts.
• Highlights the importance of integrating past learnings into current passions.

"I've never loved an art more... I'm a lunatic, I just love it."

• Illustrates the profound impact of passion and dedication on personal fulfillment and success.