Is Going to College Still Worth It (w Ken Coleman) Pt. 1 Nov. '22 Ep 468

In a revealing conversation with Ken Coleman on the Dave Ramsey network, Alex Hormozi discusses the evolving value of higher education, the diminishing return on investment for college degrees, and the practicality of trade skills in the current economy. He challenges the status quo of parental expectations, emphasizing the importance of acquiring practical skills and experience over traditional academic paths. Alex shares the story of his 19-year-old neighbor, Jacob, who chose to drop out of college to work in sales, amassing significant savings and invaluable business acumen, showcasing the benefits of hands-on experience and the potential for success outside conventional education. Alex also reflects on his personal journey, transitioning from defining success by net worth to building goodwill, and the internal shift from fear to faith that prompted this change in perspective.

• Speaker A describes the interview as one of the best or top three interviews they've done.
• Ken Coleman is noted as a wonderful interviewer and conversationalist.
• Topics covered were unique and not commonly discussed by Speaker A.
• Discussed the larger economy and current opportunities.
• Speaker A hopes the audience gains value from the podcast and applies the lessons learned.

"This was probably the best or one of the top three interviews that I have done to date. This was with Ken Coleman on the Dave Ramsey network." "We talk about the larger economy at large, different opportunities that are existing right now."

The quote establishes the significance of the interview and the unique topics covered, emphasizing the value and insight provided on the economy and opportunities within it.

• Being unable to work is considered worse than being forced to work.
• Wealthiest people view business as a game.
• Speaker A documents lessons learned while building acquisition.com.
• The aim is to help others grow their businesses and potentially partner with Speaker A's company.

"It is worse to not be able to work than to be forced to work." "The wealthiest people in the world see business as a game."

These quotes reflect Speaker A's perspective on work and the mindset of successful entrepreneurs, highlighting the importance of being active in the workforce and treating business strategically.

• Speaker A questions the original purpose of college and its relevance today.
• College was meant to improve the workforce quality and national competitiveness.
• The return on investment for college used to be higher.
• Speaker A supports the idea of working while studying if possible.
• The discrepancy between earnings of degree holders and non-degree holders has diminished.
• Student loans are a significant risk due to their inability to be discharged through bankruptcy.
• Speaker A uses a phlebotomy certification analogy to illustrate the intended value of education.

"I think one of the easiest ways to think through it is to think, like, first principles of why was college established to begin with." "The difficulty is that now there is no discrepancy between what someone can earn with or without a college degree, but there is a very real cost in both time and money."

These quotes delve into the historical rationale behind higher education and the current challenges it faces, such as the lack of a clear financial advantage for degree holders and the burdensome cost of college.

• Speaker A believes the status and parental pride influence educational choices.
• Parents may prioritize white-collar jobs for their children for perceived prestige.
• Trades may offer better financial and personal satisfaction but are undervalued due to societal norms.
• Herd behavior and cultural norms have overtaken the original value-driven purpose of college.

"I think everything comes down to status." "It transformed from being a value additive to a cultural norm."

These quotes highlight the social factors influencing educational decisions and the shift from college as a value proposition to a cultural expectation.

• Speaker B criticizes the pressure on young people regarding college education.
• Speaker A agrees with Gary Vee on the limited fields that require degrees.
• The higher education system is questioned for its relevance to most career paths.
• There is a discussion on the diminishing requirement for a degree in the tech industry and other sectors.

"I think Gary Vee said something that was really profound." "Well, let's just look at large companies like Google and other tech companies that are hiring young people and they don't even care what their degree is, whether they have one or not."

These quotes discuss the changing landscape of job requirements and the overemphasis on traditional measures of success, like degrees, which may not be as critical for many career paths.

• Speaker A tells the story of a 19-year-old neighbor who questioned the value of his college education.
• The neighbor was an above-average student but felt discontent with the college experience.
• He realized that his interest lay in learning how to make money, which he pursued outside the college system.

"He did a semester there. He didn't like kind of the social programming aspect of everything that was being pushed down his throat." "And he still felt like all of his time and all of his energy was going into watching YouTube videos about how to make money."

The quotes provide a real-life example of a young individual recognizing the mismatch between his educational path and his personal and professional interests, leading to a decision to seek alternative learning opportunities.

• The discussion revolves around a young man named Jacob who is faced with the decision to continue college or pursue a career in sales.
• Jacob's parents are financially well-off and could afford his college education.
• Alex suggests that college acts as a safety net for Jacob, giving him an excuse not to fully commit to his entrepreneurial aspirations.
• The speaker emphasizes that college is always an option as institutions will readily accept tuition payments.

"But for him, it was a safety net, was that he had an excuse to not succeed at his entrepreneurial desire because he had a four year buffer."

• This quote highlights the idea that college can sometimes serve as an excuse to delay pursuing one's true goals, especially when there is no immediate financial pressure.

• Alex presents two hypothetical scenarios to Jacob regarding his future.
• Scenario one involves Jacob completing college with a mediocre GPA and ending up in debt.
• Scenario two involves Jacob joining a sales team, learning valuable skills, and saving money over the same four-year period.

"Jacob, number one, you go and you finish your Pepperdine in four years with a three two business degree. I was like, let's be real. The world doesn't need a three two business degree."

• This quote reflects the speaker's view that a mediocre college degree may not be as valuable or necessary as real-world experience and skills.

• Jacob decides to quit college after his first semester to pursue a sales job.
• Alex has several discussions with Jacob's parents to assure them of their son's well-being and potential for success.
• The parents' main concerns are about societal perceptions and the perceived safety that a college degree offers.

"I had to talk to his parents three or four times off the. They're like, hey, I want you to know you have a lot of influence over our son, and I really want you to use that. I'm not going to screw your son over. I promise."

• This quote demonstrates the trust Jacob's parents place in Alex and their concern for their son's future.

• After two years, Jacob has saved a significant amount of money and has rapidly advanced in his sales career.
• He has learned to overcome challenges such as rejection and has developed maturity through his sales experiences.
• Jacob's success in sales is contrasted with the hypothetical outcome of having pursued a traditional college education.

"As a 19 year old, he worked his way off the call floor as the top setter, outbound dialer, and then we have three sales teams."

• This quote showcases Jacob's rapid career progression and his ability to excel in a competitive sales environment.

• The concept of a "gap year" is discussed, with the speaker advocating for its value as long as the individual remains active and explorative.
• The gap year is seen as an opportunity for personal growth and skill development, particularly in the context of understanding business.

"And I think it's so important. And I want to stay here with this 19 year old because for my audience, they'll get where I'm going here."

• This quote emphasizes the speaker's belief in the importance of real-world experience and the potential benefits of taking a gap year to learn and grow.

• Jacob is portrayed as an entrepreneur in the making, who is currently focused on understanding sales as a foundational skill.
• He is also encouraged to learn other aspects of business, such as marketing and delivery, to become a well-rounded entrepreneur.
• The speaker stresses the importance of acquiring a diverse set of skills and experiences to increase the likelihood of success in business.

"And so he understands that he's on a journey to acquire skills so that when he does choose to deploy them, he'll have the capital and he'll have the experience in order to increase the likelihood of success."

• This quote highlights the strategic approach to skill acquisition and the long-term vision for entrepreneurial success.

• The ability to handle rejection is emphasized as a critical skill for success in any field.
• The speaker argues that working in a challenging sales environment builds resilience and grit.
• There is a concern about the current generation being sheltered from negative experiences, which can hinder the development of resilience.

"You learn to overcome rejection, which is maybe the most valuable skill of any successful person."

• This quote underlines the significance of learning to handle rejection, not just in business, but as a life skill that contributes to overall success and resilience.

• Embracing the initial phase of failure is essential to achieve proficiency.
• Alex and the speaker discuss the importance of going through a period of inadequacy to become good at something.
• This concept is presented as a critical lesson that might not be adequately emphasized to younger generations.

"But you can't be good, Alex, unless you suck. I don't know how you get to be good at anything without sucking in the first place."

The quote emphasizes that failure is an inevitable step on the path to success, suggesting that one must experience inadequacy before achieving excellence.

• The speaker argues against labeling emotions as inherently good or bad.
• They liken emotional experiences to weather patterns, necessary for a balanced human experience.
• Over-medication of the youth is mentioned as a consequence of misinterpreting uncomfortable feelings as entirely negative.

"And to your point about ascribing a negative or positive label to an emotional state is, in my opinion, the biggest plight of the youngest generation right now is that we want to draw a line and say, any feeling below the line is bad."

This quote criticizes the tendency to categorize emotions simplistically, suggesting that all emotional states have a role in personal development and should not be dismissed as merely good or bad.

• The speaker outlines three key areas for personal development: skills, traits, and beliefs.
• Entrepreneurs are often limited by deficiencies in one of these areas.
• The importance of character traits like focus and the ability to handle rejection is highlighted.
• Skills alone are not enough; they must be complemented by the right traits and beliefs.

"You've got skills, you've got traits, and then you've got beliefs about the world. You got perspectives, and so you are limited, or at least in my view, entrepreneurs are limited by one of those three at any given moment."

This quote lays out a framework for understanding personal growth, emphasizing that success is contingent on a balance of developed skills, positive traits, and constructive beliefs.

• The speaker discusses the comprehensive learning experience of a young individual named Jacob.
• Jacob's work experience taught him practical skills, discipline, and a healthy perspective on money.
• The goal was to instill a mindset free from limiting beliefs about wealth before negative concepts could take root.

"He learned discipline. He learned how to show up on time. He learned how to have a uniform. He learned how to talk to adults. He learned how to hold a frame."

This quote details the various life skills and traits that Jacob acquired through his work experience, which extended far beyond the technical aspects of the job.

• The discussion moves to the idea that passion can be discovered through engaging in challenging work.
• The speaker suggests that by doing difficult tasks, people may find intrinsic pleasure in the work itself.
• A connection is drawn between experiencing pain and finding pleasure in overcoming challenges.

"It's that in doing hard things, embracing the suck as we've been talking about, I feel that inside of that we begin to discover along the way, oh, I did this just because it was hard. But along the way, I found that."

The quote reflects on the process of finding passion and enjoyment in work by facing and overcoming difficulties, rather than avoiding them.

• The speaker believes in the intrinsic value of work and its transformative effect on the individual.
• A personal experience is shared where not being able to work was more detrimental than being forced to work.
• The concept that the satisfaction derived from an accomplishment is proportional to the effort invested is discussed.

"Your work works on you more than you work on it."

This quote encapsulates the idea that the act of working has a profound impact on personal growth and development, shaping the individual in significant ways.

• The speaker identifies their talents, including persuasion and resource allocation.
• The ability to simplify complex situations and decisively execute plans is highlighted as a key strength.
• A love for learning and teaching is expressed as a passion.

"I'm good at persuading... I'm pretty good at resource allocation."

This quote reveals the speaker's self-acknowledged talents, which contribute to their success and influence their approach to work and life challenges.

• The speaker had a realization about their love for learning rather than teaching.
• They utilize teaching as a method to facilitate their own learning.
• Engaging in activities such as writing a book on sales is seen as a way to learn more about the subject.

"I used to say that I love teaching, and I thought more about it, and it's actually, I don't love teaching. I love learning, and I use teaching as a vehicle for learning."

The quote highlights the speaker's introspection and the conclusion that their passion lies in learning, with teaching serving as a means to that end.

• The speaker identifies more with the role of a Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) rather than a Chief Executive Officer (CEO).
• They enjoy promotion, communication, and connecting with various groups such as their team, portfolio CEOs, and audiences.
• The speaker's wife is identified as being better suited to the CEO role.

"That is transparently the majority of what I do in general, and talking to people, that's what I enjoy doing."

This quote emphasizes the speaker's preference for roles that involve communication and interaction with others, which aligns with the responsibilities of a CMO.

• The speaker enjoys connecting with people and helping them progress, which they liken to coaching.
• They discuss the impact of mentoring a young neighbor, illustrating the role of a mentor or coach as a guide.

"And really what that is, it's about connecting with people and helping them get from here to here, if you're going to simplify it."

The quote reflects the essence of coaching and mentoring, which is to facilitate personal growth and development in others.

• The speaker has redefined their personal mission, moving away from equating self-worth with net worth.
• They now focus on building goodwill and making decisions that contribute positively, without neutral moves.
• The concept of goodwill is defined as giving more than what is taken, aiming to leave a surplus of IOUs in the world.

"So I recently, after ten years, have just redefined this for myself. And it was something that I'm almost ashamed to say what it was before, but I shared why I defined my self worth through my net worth for the vast majority of my career, despite knowing that it is not the best way to do it."

This quote indicates a significant shift in the speaker's values, moving from a materialistic measure of success to one focused on intangible contributions and goodwill.

• Goodwill is explained as the balance between giving and taking, with the goal of giving in excess.
• The speaker aims to create the most value through high leverage activities like writing influential books or producing media content.

"It's giving in excess of what you take. And so if I give to somebody and I ask for nothing back, I have goodwill. I've deposited an iou into the world, and I would like to die with a surplus of ious."

The quote defines goodwill in terms of a positive balance of contributions to the world, aspiring to leave a legacy of generosity.

• The speaker's previous drive for net worth was rooted in fear and the desire to be beyond criticism.
• This fear stemmed from a childhood of high expectations and constantly moving goalposts.
• The speaker has transitioned from fear to faith, changing their game's rules to focus on positive contributions rather than material success.

"I think it was an internal shift from fear to faith. Wow. Not in the traditional religious sense, but more so just. It was fear driven fear, anger, whatever. But I think fear is usually at the core of it."

The quote reveals the internal transformation from being motivated by fear to operating from a place of faith in their own value and contributions.

• The speaker's journey has evolved from protecting themselves from criticism to distributing goodwill.
• This shift represents a significant change in the speaker's heart and life purpose.

"You went from protecting yourself. Those are the words you used to. Now it's about distribution of. From protection to distribution."

The quote encapsulates the speaker's personal growth from a defensive stance to one of proactive generosity, marking a profound change in their approach to life and success.