Douglas Murray on Tommy Robinson

Jordan Peterson and Douglas Murray discuss the controversial figure Tommy Robinson, focusing on his efforts to expose the UK grooming gangs and the societal backlash he faces. They explore the broader issue of public distrust in governmental and media responses to violent incidents, particularly those involving immigrants. Murray highlights the UK's failure to address public concerns on immigration and integration, leading to social unrest and violence. The conversation underscores the tension between free speech and societal taboos, questioning what actions are permissible for individuals like Robinson in confronting these deep-seated issues.

• Tommy Robinson is recognized for his unwavering commitment to exposing the grooming gangs in the UK.
• Despite his controversial reputation, his dedication to addressing severe issues is notable.
• The interview aimed to allow the audience to form their own judgments about Robinson.

"Tammy and I went out on a limb recently and interviewed Tommy Robinson."

• The interview was a bold move, indicating a willingness to engage with contentious figures.

"He's struck me as particularly interesting... because he is a genuine working-class guy and for better or worse."

• Robinson's background and authenticity as a working-class individual make him a compelling figure.

"I haven't seen anyone anywhere who's been more unwavering in his commitment to reveal the atrocities of the grooming gangs in the UK."

• Robinson's dedication to exposing the grooming gangs is unparalleled.

"There are many things that you could accuse Tommy Robinson of and many things many of those he would admit to."

• Acknowledges Robinson's controversial aspects and his own admissions.

"The fact that he's pointed his finger at something that seriously needs to be attended to and has paid a major price for it is also not ignorable."

• Emphasizes the importance of Robinson's work despite his flaws.

"Do we expect someone who's brave enough to do that to also be perfect in every regard?"

• Raises the question of expecting perfection from those who take on significant challenges.

"I thought it was up to the audience to listen and to make their own judgment."

• The interview's purpose was to provide information for the audience to form their own opinions.

• Robinson's recent March in London was peaceful and well-organized, similar to the Ottawa protests.
• The aftermath of the protests led to chaos, indicating the volatile situation in the UK.

"The recent March that Robinson and his crew organized in London... went as peacefully and well as the protests in Ottawa."

• The March was conducted peacefully, mirroring the Ottawa protests' success.

"His crew handled that extraordinarily well."

• Commends Robinson's team for their effective management of the protest.

"In the aftermath of those protests... all sorts of chaotic hell has broken loose."

• Highlights the chaos following the peaceful protest, indicating underlying tensions.

• The UK is described as a volatile situation, akin to a Tinder Box.
• The predictions about the UK's societal issues were made with a sense of lamentation.

"My sense at the moment is that the UK is somewhat of a Tinder Box."

• Describes the UK's current state as highly unstable and prone to conflict.

"I wish it hadn't been so predictable."

• Expresses regret over the predictable nature of the UK's issues.

"The strange death of Europe was largely my last ditch attempt to warn my own Society of birth and other Western countries not to go down the path that they were precisely going down."

• The book "The Strange Death of Europe" was written as a warning to Western societies about their trajectory.

"I made them not with any Glee but in a spirit of deep lamentation about what was about to happen to my society."

• The predictions were made with sorrow and concern for societal decline.

• Robinson represents a broader issue within society, reflecting the warnings made in "The Strange Death of Europe."
• His actions and the reactions to them are indicative of deeper societal problems.

"Tommy Robinson's a very interesting example of this whole thing."

• Robinson exemplifies the societal issues discussed in the broader context.

"Warned about it so many years... the strange death of Europe was largely my last ditch attempt to warn my own Society of birth and other Western countries."

• Reiterates the warnings given in "The Strange Death of Europe" regarding societal decline.

• A 17-year-old attacked young girls with a knife in a Taylor Swift dance class, killing three girls around nine years old and wounding many others.
• The aftermath led to public suspicion of a cover-up or managed news.

"A 17-year-old went into a Taylor Swift dance class a couple of weeks ago and started hacking at young girls with a knife, killed three girls around nine years old, and wounded many others."

• A tragic incident involving a brutal attack on young girls.

"The news of that came out, and a very typical modern British, modern European, modern Western thing happened which was that in the aftermath, people started to suspect something was being kept from them."

• Public suspicion arose following the incident, typical of modern Western reactions.

• False information spread online, claiming the attacker was an illegal migrant.
• The attacker was actually the son of immigrants from Rwanda.
• Public sensed a cover-up, exacerbated by police handling.

"False information went out online saying that the attacker was an illegal migrant that had arrived on one of the many boats of illegal migrants that come across the English Channel every week. That was untrue; in fact, he was the son of immigrants from Rwanda."

• Misinformation about the attacker's background spread rapidly online.

"People started to sense that there was a cover-up of some kind or at least the news was being managed."

• The public felt that information was being withheld or managed by authorities.

• The police insisted the young man was originally from Cardiff, causing further suspicion.
• The handling by the police was seen as exacerbating the problem.

"The police in Britain seem to always think they're being very clever at this, and it always seemed to me that they exacerbate every problem they put their mind to."

• Criticism of the police's approach to managing information and public reaction.

"They insisted that the young man was originally from Cardiff, the capital of Wales, and people just sensed there was something they were holding from us."

• The insistence on the attacker's origin added to the public's distrust.

• Protests began peacefully but turned violent, targeting a nearby mosque.
• Muslim communities began arming themselves for defense.
• The situation is volatile and may either die down or worsen.

"Some protests started peacefully at first, then some turned violent. A mosque was targeted nearby, and then violence started to spread out to other towns."

• Protests escalated to violence, targeting a mosque and spreading to other areas.

"Muslim communities started to arm up, in some cases literally, with people turning up with knives to defend their areas."

• Muslim communities responded by arming themselves for protection.

"Maybe it'll die down by the time this podcast has gone out, or maybe it'll get a lot worse."

• The uncertainty of the situation's future development.

• The primary problem is the political class's unwillingness to address public concerns.
• Historical incidents contribute to public distrust and quick conclusions.

"The primary problem in the UK, as in Europe in recent years, has been the total unwillingness of the political and other classes in the UK to address deep, deep concerns of the public."

• The root issue is the political class's failure to address public concerns.

"People don't actually forget very fast. The media class may, but they don't forget very fast that it's only seven years ago that the son of Libyan migrants to the UK went and detonated a suicide bomb at an Ariana Grande concert in Manchester."

• Historical incidents like the Manchester bombing contribute to the public's quick conclusions and distrust.

"They don't forget fast that three people who had no right to be in the UK, including one whose asylum claim had been rejected but who was nowhere near being deported, went across London Bridge in 2017 hacking at the..."

• Past incidents involving migrants contribute to the public's quick assumptions and distrust in the authorities.

• The British government struggles with effectively tackling social issues such as public disturbances and grooming gangs.
• Despite legal actions, the public perceives the government's efforts as insufficient and slow.
• The government’s immigration and integration policies are blamed by the public for exacerbating these issues.
• The Conservative government failed to meet its migration reduction promises, resulting in unsustainable levels of net migration.

"The British government and others have had this very, very clear policy that they don't really know what to do to tackle that."

• The government lacks a clear and effective strategy to address public disturbances and grooming gangs.

"There was another set of prosecutions the other day and another case is coming to court in the coming weeks."

• Legal actions are ongoing but perceived as insufficient by the public.

"The government knows that the public ascribed this to the government's immigration policies, integration policies, but the governments can't take responsibility for that because they've made that mistake."

• The public blames the government’s immigration and integration policies, but the government avoids taking responsibility.

"The Conservative government that just left power that said that they would bring migration down to the tens of thousands a year left office with net migration of legal migration at almost 34 of a million a year which is by the way completely unsustainable."

• The Conservative government failed to reduce migration to promised levels, resulting in unsustainable migration rates.

• Public figures like Tommy Robinson highlight the limitations on free speech and action regarding sensitive issues.
• There is a societal divide in what different social classes and backgrounds are allowed to say or do about controversial topics.
• The government and media often label dissenting voices as racist or far-right to suppress their views.

"The interesting thing that Tommy Robinson speaks to and has always spoken to is what are you allowed to do about this or say about this."

• Tommy Robinson raises issues about the limitations on free speech and action regarding controversial topics.

"If you're a Tommy Robinson character, if you grow up in Luton and you haven't had many advantages in life and you've had quite a lot of disadvantages and you're white and working class, what are you allowed to do about this?"

• People from disadvantaged backgrounds face restrictions on expressing their views on sensitive issues.

"The government for decades now has had the attitude you're not allowed to do anything, you're not allowed to say anything, you can't do anything because if you do we'll call you a racist and we'll call you far-right."

• The government and media often label dissenting voices as racist or far-right to suppress their views.

• People often avoid engaging with controversial figures due to the low personal cost of ignoring them.
• The societal labeling of individuals can lead to a lack of attention to potentially important voices and perspectives.

"When I first came across your work and I've seen this reaction in the depths of my soul to many people when I first came across your work which is quite a long time ago now, you know, I was leery of it."

• Initial reactions to controversial figures can be cautious and skeptical.

"There are a lot of people in the world and I'm not going to be able to meet all of them or read all of them or have anything to do with all of them and now and then some of them get tarred with some epithet."

• The vast number of people and perspectives means that societal labels can easily lead to the dismissal of certain voices.

"The cost to me of accepting that tarring is very low on average because if I don't pay attention to some person there's a whole bunch of other people I could pay attention to so it's not like the pool of people to attend to shrinks."

• The personal cost of ignoring controversial figures is low, leading to a broader societal tendency to dismiss them.

• The term "far-right" is an effective tool for discrediting individuals, even among those skeptical of such labels.
• Michael Shellenberger's investigation into the corruption within medical associations highlights the ideological possession and lack of competence in these organizations.
• Shellenberger's awareness was partly influenced by listening to a podcast featuring Abigail Shrier.

"So, I talked to Michael Shellenberger after he released the W path files when he was investigating the absolute pathological corruption and Craven cowardice of the Cadre who presented what purport to be the standard guidelines for enlightened care to the American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, and he was appalled at their lack of competence and their ideological possession."

• Shellenberger was shocked by the incompetence and ideological bias in major medical associations.

"I asked him how he became aware of this, and he said, well, one way was that he had listened to Abigail Shrier and I talk about it. I guess it was two years ago when Abigail first put out her book, Irreversible Damage."

• Shellenberger became aware of these issues through a podcast discussing Abigail Shrier's book.

• It is easier to destroy someone's reputation, especially if they lack a substantial body of published work.
• Authors with multiple books or numerous articles have more credibility and are harder to discredit.

"It's so easy to demolish someone's reputation, and it's especially easy to demolish a reputation for people who do not have as it were a backlog of published work."

• Individuals without extensive published work are more vulnerable to reputation attacks.

"It can't be the case that only book authors are allowed to say anything about the disintegration of their societies."

• The conversation about societal issues should not be limited to authors and journalists.

• There is a growing public discontent in British cities regarding immigration policies.
• Despite voting for less immigration, the public feels ignored and insulted by politicians.
• The discussion includes a disclaimer against violence as a response to societal problems.

"What we're seeing on the streets of the British cities, though, raises this question as I say of if the public keeps saying something to the politicians and the politicians keep not just ignoring them but insulting them, what are they allowed to do?"

• Public frustration arises from politicians ignoring and insulting their concerns about immigration.

"These are populations that have, every single election like the rest of the British people for 20 years, they have voted for less immigration, have been told that they'd get it, and instead, it's just gone up."

• Despite consistent voting for reduced immigration, the public sees an increase in immigration, leading to frustration.