20VC Instagram CEO, Adam Mosseri on Threads The Journey from 0100M Users; What Worked, What Didn't and the Plans Ahead Instagram Biggest Mistakes, Successes, Misconceptions, TikTok Competition & The Future of Social Media; Interest Graph or Friend G

In a dynamic conversation on 20vc, Harry Stebbings interviews Adam Mosseri, the influential head of Instagram and a pivotal figure at Meta. Mosseri reflects on his career trajectory, from his early days in service jobs to his rise as a product leader, emphasizing the importance of humility, breadth of skills, and the ability to iterate and respond to user feedback. He candidly discusses the challenges of taking over Instagram, the strategic pivot to embrace video through Reels, and the excitement surrounding the launch of Threads, which hit 100 million users in five days. Mosseri highlights the critical role of creator engagement and retention in Threads' success, while also touching on the personal side of work-life balance and setting intentional life goals. Throughout, Mosseri underscores the need for adaptability, the impact of generative AI on work, and the value of setting aspirational yet achievable goals.

• Recognizing the value in competitors' actions and being humble enough to learn from them.
• Importance of iterating products to retain users over the long term, beyond initial signups.
• Distinction between building a product that attracts users to try it and one that keeps them engaged consistently.

"When you see a competitor do something, I think it's super important to be humble enough to learn from it."

"It's way easier to build something that people are willing to try than build something that people want to continue to use in a month or a year from now."

Adam Mosseri emphasizes the necessity of humility in business, learning from competitors, and the challenge of creating enduring products that engage users long-term.

• Threads reached 100 million users in five days.
• Adam Mosseri's extensive experience at Meta, including roles as head of Instagram and overseeing creators and reels.
• Acknowledgment of contributions from Anne Schultz, Naomi Gelt, and Sam Lessin in preparing for the podcast.

"Now, today's show is an immensely special one, because in recent weeks we've seen threads smash all previous records and hit."

"Adam's also head of Instagram and leading Meta's efforts on creators and reels, and Adam's been at Meta for more than 15 years, having started at Meta as a designer."

Harry Stebbings introduces the episode, highlighting Threads' success and Adam Mosseri's influential position at Meta and Instagram.

• Adam Mosseri's experience in service jobs, such as bartending, taught him humility and people management skills.
• Service jobs provide exposure to a diverse clientele, fostering adaptability and appreciation for good service.
• The value placed on service job experience by companies like Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley due to the skills developed in such roles.

"Bartending was one of my first jobs, paying for sort of rent and stuff in New York, in university."

"I think service is a really good thing to do early in life because it teaches you some humility, but also how to work with people in a wide range of people."

Adam Mosseri discusses how early service jobs helped him develop essential skills for his career, emphasizing the benefits of humility and dealing with various personalities.

• Adam Mosseri's journey from a designer to a leadership role in product management.
• The importance of problem-solving skills learned from design, such as articulating problems, evaluating solutions, and handling feedback.
• His reliability and bias towards fulfilling requests as reasons for his rise to Director of Design for Mobile at Facebook.

"As a designer... I made up for lack of natural talent with just sheer brute force, just hours."

"Design, I think, is about making sure you're incredibly clear about what problem it is that you're solving."

Adam Mosseri reflects on his career progression, attributing his success to hard work and a focus on problem-solving, which were key to his transition from design to product leadership.

• Understanding the desire of senior company members for problem resolution without their involvement.
• The importance of delivering solutions without burdening superiors with the process.
• Building a strong, skilled, and diverse team to handle challenges effectively.

"I think that it became clear to me that a lot of times for the people who are senior at the company... that what they really wanted was to be able to hand you a problem and then not to hear anything back from you until it was solved."

Adam Mosseri discusses the realization that senior leaders value independence in problem-solving and how this understanding helped him succeed in his role.

• The necessity for leaders to communicate frequently and consistently to ensure team alignment.
• Balancing the need for discussion with the need to make executive decisions and maintain team creativity.
• The importance of talking extensively about company direction and goals to ensure understanding and buy-in.

"If you really want to move the team on something, you need to say it so many times that you literally want to throw up in your mouth if you say it again, and then you need to say it again and again and again."

Adam Mosseri stresses the need for leaders to repeatedly communicate their vision to ensure it is internalized by the team, while also being judicious in exercising decision-making authority.

• Encouraging individuals early in their careers to gain a variety of experiences to discover their values and aspirations.
• The significance of being clear and honest about professional goals and aligning work to achieve them.
• The role of managers in helping individuals find the overlap between personal goals and company needs.

"I think the advice to an IC, honestly, anybody early in their career is probably just to get a range of different experiences."

"The most important thing over the long run is that whatever you want to be professionally, that you are clear and honest with yourself about that."

Adam Mosseri advises on the importance of varied experiences in shaping career paths and the necessity of self-awareness in setting and pursuing professional goals.

• Reflecting on the emotional challenges faced when stepping into a new leadership role.
• The need for patience and the difficulties encountered during the initial transition period.
• The importance of seeking advice and emotional support from peers and friends during challenging times.

"It probably would be more like emotional support, but probably would just be be patient."

"The first year was really tough. Three, four months in my take was like, I've made a horrible mistake."

Adam Mosseri shares the emotional toll of transitioning to CEO of Instagram and the importance of patience and support during the process.

• The challenge of hiring and integrating a new leadership team with complementary skills and chemistry.
• The need to balance individual abilities with the collective skill set required by the team.
• The art of creating rapport and trust within a diverse senior team.

"I had to hire a head of design, engineering, product management, data science, research, HR, communications, marketing and a COo. It's just a lot."

Adam Mosseri describes the daunting task of assembling a new leadership team at Instagram and the complexities involved in ensuring they work well together.

• The experience and lessons learned from taking over Instagram after the departure of its founders.
• The advice from the founders to focus on successful market performance to boost morale.
• The approach of being a "sponge" and avoiding immediate changes to understand the company culture and operations better.

"Kevin's advice was, look, that's all nice, but really, what's going to boost morale more than anything else is doing really good work and succeeding in the market, and everything else is kind of noise."

Adam Mosseri reflects on the guidance received from Instagram's founders, emphasizing the impact of success on team morale and the importance of focusing on quality work.

• Acknowledging the inevitability of mistakes and the impact of high-pressure situations.
• Reflecting on a significant media blow-up and the lessons learned from handling multiple controversial changes simultaneously.
• The importance of pacing changes and managing public and internal reactions.

"The biggest blow up was the press cycle the summer before last around, what was called externally panavision, which actually meant something different internally."

Adam Mosseri recounts a challenging period of public backlash and the importance of managing change and communication effectively to mitigate negative reactions.

• Adam Mosseri believes that making mistakes is a sign of trying big things and not being too conservative.
• He experienced public ridicule through memes but saw it as a part of the process.
• His personal anecdotes reveal the importance of humor and support in dealing with public scrutiny.

"So I was trying to calibrate, because on one hand, I do think that if you're not making mistakes, you're not trying big enough things."

Adam Mosseri explains that without making mistakes, it could indicate that one is not taking enough risks or attempting sufficiently ambitious projects. This is important as it underlines the value of risk-taking in innovation and personal growth.

• It's crucial to ensure all perspectives are heard before making a decision.
• Clarity on who the decision-maker is and when a decision is made is vital.
• Emphasizing the importance of "disagree and commit" to prevent continuous questioning of decisions.

"I think the key thing is you make sure both sides are heard, then you make it very clear who's the decision maker, and then you make it very clear when there's a decision and you have to remind people that it's important to disagree and commit."

Adam Mosseri highlights the process of decision-making, especially in controversial situations, where it's important to listen to all sides, establish clear decision-making authority, and encourage commitment to decisions once made.

• Instagram's feed had to evolve to stay relevant due to changes in how people share content.
• Growth in Instagram usage is seen in stories and DMs, not in traditional feed posts.
• Recommendations in the feed were introduced to keep the feed dynamic and relevant.

"Basically what people don't realize is they think of Instagram as a feed of square photos, sometimes in chronological order. And if you look at how people share, all of the growth has been in stories and in dms over the last five years or so."

Adam Mosseri explains how Instagram's user behavior has shifted from posting in the feed to using stories and DMs, indicating a change in the platform's primary functions and necessitating product evolution.

• Adam Mosseri shifted resources towards messaging due to its growing importance.
• Messaging on Instagram serves as a means to initiate conversations through features like stories replies, funny reels, and notes.
• The intention is to facilitate social interactions in a way that feels natural and less intrusive.

"It definitely made me shift more resources towards messaging. Actually, at one point a couple of years ago, I think I put the entire stories team on messaging."

Adam Mosseri discusses the strategic decision to focus on messaging within Instagram, acknowledging its significance and the user engagement it drives.

• Willingness to prioritize certain user segments, like young people and creators, is crucial.
• The importance of progressive disclosure in app design to keep the experience simple.
• Features like notes are designed to be unobtrusive and only become more complex as needed.

"I think it's super valuable to be willing to prioritize certain segments over others. We care about young people and we care about creators most."

Adam Mosseri emphasizes the strategic choice to prioritize certain user demographics on Instagram, acknowledging their influence and potential for setting trends.

• Simplicity in design is not always better; it's a means to an end, such as usability or broad appeal.
• The challenge is to balance simplicity with functionality to meet users' needs effectively.
• Instagram has become too complicated, and there's a need to simplify and improve user experience.

"No, and I'm going to get crucified by a bunch of designers for saying so. I have a strong bias towards simplicity."

Adam Mosseri acknowledges his preference for simplicity in design but also recognizes that complexity can sometimes serve a purpose in enhancing user experience.

• The process of removing features that aren't widely used or don't add significant value.
• The importance of consolidating design patterns to reduce app complexity.
• Allocating resources to streamline the app and improve usability.

"We actually, like, I was talking to our head of design and one of our product leads two days ago about how do we carve out a certain percentage of the team's time to just unship things that aren't used that much or don't create that much value."

Adam Mosseri discusses the proactive approach to simplifying Instagram by removing underused features and focusing on design consolidation.

• The activity feed was removed due to its low usage and privacy concerns.
• Decisions to remove features can be controversial but are based on user data and app strategy.
• The backlash from a small but vocal user base is a challenge when unshipping features.

"One of the things that we did unship was the activity feed. Activity is like your notifications, and there was a place you could go to see all the things your friends had liked."

Adam Mosseri explains the rationale behind removing the activity feed feature from Instagram, considering its limited use and potential privacy issues.

• The launch of Reels was a strategic response to the rise of TikTok and a shift towards short-form video content.
• Reels is designed to be full screen and sound on, embracing the mobile form factor.
• Humility and willingness to learn from competitors are key to adapting and innovating.

"Reels has been huge for us. Reels is pushing 50% of time spent in the app at this point, not quite there."

Adam Mosseri describes the significant impact of the Reels feature on Instagram, highlighting its strategic importance and the need to adapt to new content formats.

• It's important to understand the fundamental human needs that new innovations meet.
• Instagram's willingness to adopt new formats that could become industry standards is part of its competitive DNA.
• The ability to learn from competitors and trends helps in staying relevant and competitive.

"We are willing to take risks that sometimes really blows up in our face."

Adam Mosseri acknowledges Instagram's competitive nature and its readiness to adopt successful innovations from competitors, even if it entails risks.

• Assessing whether a new trend or innovation meets a fundamental and persistent human need.
• Learning from how people use or misuse the app can provide insights into user needs and guide innovation.

"I mean, I think you try to make sure that you're understanding what is the fundamental human need that's being met."

Adam Mosseri discusses the criteria for determining whether a new trend or innovation is sustainable by evaluating its ability to meet enduring human needs.

• The success of Threads is partly due to the ease of importing identity and connections from Instagram.
• The ability to follow people not yet on Threads and the potential for synchronization of graphs.
• The challenge is to iterate and improve the app to ensure long-term use, not just initial sign-ups.

"I mean, this is one of the key reasons for the success, is that you sign in with your Instagram account."

Adam Mosseri explains the successful strategy behind the launch of Threads, emphasizing the seamless integration with Instagram to facilitate user adoption.

• Social media usage and overlap between platforms are often a matter of personal preference.
• Many users find it easier to have similar content across platforms rather than managing distinct identities or content preferences on each.
• Adam Mosseri acknowledges the convenience of syncing content across platforms for the majority of users.

"I think it's going to be a very personal choice. I think for a lot of people, it's just going to be easier not to have to think about it and just be like, it's 80% the same anyway. I just want you to keep in sync."

This quote emphasizes that individual preference drives the decision to maintain similar or distinct content across different social media platforms. Adam Mosseri recognizes that for many users, simplicity and consistency are more desirable than curating unique content for each platform.

• The idea of starting a new platform with no followers was considered but ultimately dismissed as the overlap between existing social graphs was deemed significant enough to allow for an easier transition for users.
• Threads offers a unique balance by being a separate app with significant overlap in user interests, which was a deliberate internal decision.

"Yes, we talked about it, but we thought that for enough people, probably the majority, that there would be enough overlap that it would make a lot of sense to just allow you to quickly do it."

Adam Mosseri explains that the decision to allow users to carry over their social graph rather than start from scratch was based on the assumption that most users would appreciate the ease of transition due to the significant overlap in interests.

• Adam Mosseri disagrees with the notion that the social graph is ineffective at predicting user preferences and believes that the relationship between social connections and interests is more nuanced.
• He highlights the tension between who users care about and who they want to hear from, as well as between long-term abstract preferences and daily interactions.

"No, I think it's too black and white. I do think there's tension. Who you care about and who you want to hear from are not the same."

Adam Mosseri refutes the idea that the social graph is entirely ineffective at predicting user preferences. He suggests that the dynamics of social media preferences are complex and involve both social and interest-based factors.

• Video content creates challenges for traditional social networks by reducing ad impressions and interactions like comments and likes.
• Instagram's integration of video through Reels has created a positive feedback loop by encouraging friend-to-friend interaction and content discovery.
• Reels has been successful in fostering connections without sacrificing the social aspects, unlike previous video initiatives on Instagram and Facebook.

"Video tends to be good for time spent and bad for everything else. Bad for revenue, bad for comments, bad for likes, bad for sends, et cetera."

This quote outlines the challenges video content poses to traditional social network monetization and engagement metrics, highlighting that while video increases time spent on the platform, it can negatively impact revenue and other forms of engagement.

• It's too early to tell if Threads and Reels represent the full integration of the social and interest graphs.
• Reels has been designed to embrace video consumption and facilitate connections between friends, while Threads' success remains to be seen.

"I mean, I think it's too early to tell. On the thread side, I think reels is embracing that people want to consume video even though they don't share as much video, and giving people a way to connect with friends that embraces that preference."

Adam Mosseri suggests that while Reels has found a way to integrate video consumption with social connections, it is still uncertain how Threads will perform in integrating the social and interest graphs.

• The influencer activation strategy for Threads focused on creators to generate a critical mass of content, avoiding the risk of new users finding an empty platform.
• The decision to focus on specific verticals, such as athletes and musicians, was strategic to set a positive tone and create a less contentious space.
• The partnerships team played a crucial role in bringing creators onboard without paying them, as paying creators is not considered a scalable or sustainable approach.

"So it was very clear when you're starting something new, there's always a question which is like, do you need to get people on it so that the creators will come, or do you need to get creators on it so the people will come?"

Adam Mosseri explains the chicken-and-egg dilemma faced when launching a new platform, emphasizing the importance of having creators on the platform to attract a broader user base.

• Instagram's approach to attracting creators was based on the platform's existing popularity within the creator community.
• The strategy focused on leveraging Instagram's large creator base and creating a sense of fear of missing out (FOMO) among other creators and users.

"Instagram is the most popular in the creator community, as far as we can tell, so the most creators use it."

This quote highlights Instagram's strategic advantage in having a large and active creator community, which was instrumental in the successful launch of Threads.

• Monetization for a text-based platform like Threads is expected to be more straightforward than for video-centric platforms like Instagram Reels.
• The efficiency of text-based feeds allows for seamless integration of ads, which is beneficial for the business model.

"A text based feed is about the highest monetization efficiency of any online business I've seen."

Adam Mosseri points out the high efficiency of text-based feeds for monetization, suggesting that Threads could have a strong business model due to the ease of integrating ads into text content.

• Success for Threads is not defined by a single metric but involves achieving a critical mass of friends and interests, ensuring the platform's cultural relevance, and addressing missing features.
• Compliance with upcoming data regulations and the ability to support a broad user base, including European users, are also part of the success criteria.

"For me, the thing that's really working about Instagram right now with reels is the connection between the two."

Adam Mosseri ties success to the ability to create connections between users through features like Reels, indicating that a similar approach could define success for Threads.

• Adam Mosseri emphasizes the significance of creator community engagement as an indicator of an app's long-term success.
• Retention is currently Adam's primary focus, though it's too early to measure accurately due to the predominance of early adopters in the user base.
• The discussion revolves around the importance of not only the number of creators using the app but also how actively they share it.
• Retention of the average user is also a critical factor in the app's success.

"What does the creator community engagement look like that's going to be a bellwether for how big the app is over the longer run? And then, I mean, right now, the thing I care about most is retention."

This quote highlights Adam's focus on the engagement of the creator community and user retention as key metrics for evaluating the potential growth and success of the app.

• Creators may choose not to share content on new platforms if they get more reach elsewhere, such as on Twitter.
• Creators often have other jobs and must decide if the time spent on a new platform is worth the potential return.
• The quality of the platform, including factors like speed, toxicity, and bugs, can influence a creator's decision to engage with it.

"If you get more reach elsewhere, obviously Twitter is definitely a risk. Then is it just worth your time?"

This quote reflects the risk of creators preferring established platforms over new ones if they offer greater visibility and whether the effort required to use a new platform justifies the potential benefits.

• Adam discusses the challenge of maintaining a balance between personal life and work, acknowledging that he often feels he is underperforming in one area.
• He shares his approach to setting annual intentions, shifting from measurable goals to a mantra that he repeats nightly to keep his priorities top of mind.
• The current year's mantra focuses on self-care, loving his children, supporting his wife, and being there for his friends.

"I just think you have to be really intentional about putting pen to paper on your priorities."

This quote underscores the importance of consciously setting and maintaining personal priorities amidst the demands of work and family life.

• Adam talks about the overwhelming focus on the birth of a child and the need to plan for the long-term role of parenting.
• He advises against over-concentrating on the immediate post-birth period and emphasizes supporting the mother as a primary role for fathers early on.
• Adam shares that he adjusted his work schedule to ensure he could spend time with his children in the mornings and evenings.

"It's a race to the starting line before you have your first. You're so focused on the birth because it's terrifying."

This quote captures the preoccupation with the birth of a child and suggests that new fathers should prepare for the ongoing commitment of parenting beyond the initial stages.

• Adam advises that the best way to support a new child is to support the mother, especially since the mother often requires more from the child in the early stages.
• He shares his personal experience of supporting his wife after childbirth and the importance of understanding her needs.

"The more important thing is how are you going to adjust how you do what you do so you can be there for them for 18 years?"

This quote emphasizes the importance of long-term planning and support for the mother, which in turn benefits the child throughout their upbringing.

• Adam reflects on a letter from Hunter S. Thompson about living intentionally and choosing a path that brings enjoyment, which he uses as inspiration for his yearly intentions.
• He discusses the balance between personal goals and those defined by others, such as his boss, Mark Zuckerberg.

"A man must choose a path which will let his abilities function at maximum efficiency towards the gratification of his desires."

This quote, from Hunter S. Thompson's letter, highlights the concept of living with intention and aligning one's work with personal desires and abilities for maximum fulfillment.

• Adam has become more optimistic about the potential of generative AI and its impact on workflows.
• He uses AI to summarize articles, draft summaries of feedback, and improve his writing at work.
• Adam is interested in how AI can enhance the productivity of professionals across various industries.

"I'm much more bullish on generative AI. It's happening much faster than I would. I just thought it was further away."

This quote indicates Adam's changed perspective on the rapid advancement of generative AI and its implications for the future of work.

• Adam discusses various personal preferences, including his affinity for certain brands and his love language.
• He expresses a desire to meet new people and shares an anecdote about meeting Roger Federer.
• Adam defines success as being proud of how he spends his time, emphasizing the value he places on time management and intentionality.

"I want to be proud of how I spent my time."

This quote encapsulates Adam's philosophy on success, focusing on the meaningful use of time and the importance of living in accordance with one's values.