Steve Bannon on Elon Musk and the Battle for Trump's Ear

In a discussion with Ross Douthat on "Matter of Opinion," Steve Bannon, a key figure in Trumpian populism, critiques the influence of tech oligarchs like Elon Musk and Marc Andreessen, labeling them as progressives who threaten the populist movement. Bannon argues for a populist nationalism that prioritizes American citizens and addresses economic grievances stemming from the 2008 financial crisis and immigration issues. He emphasizes the need for policy changes, including infrastructure investment and breaking up tech monopolies, while acknowledging the challenges of aligning these goals with Trump's administration and the broader Republican Party.

• Populism in the U.S. has historical roots dating back to Andrew Jackson, with various incarnations over time, reflecting cultural and economic aspects.
• The Tea Party emerged as a reaction to financial bailouts, initially focusing on limited government but evolving to address broader economic grievances.
• Steve Bannon emphasizes that Trumpism is not just about Donald Trump but reflects deeper populist sentiments arising from economic discontent.

"The Tea Party was the president of Trump. Every financial collapse or every financial crisis you've had, I think worldwide, has some sort of reaction to it."

• Bannon highlights the Tea Party as a precursor to Trumpism, driven by reactions to financial crises and economic grievances.

"For 10 years, there's been no real work done to kind of even begin to understand populism except that the deplorables are kind of like, you know, an exotic species like the San Diego Zoo."

• Bannon criticizes the lack of understanding and analysis of populism, emphasizing its mischaracterization as merely a Trump phenomenon.

• Economic nationalism is a core component of Trumpism, focusing on protecting domestic industries and prioritizing American workers.
• Trump's approach diverged from traditional conservatism by rejecting cuts to Social Security and Medicare and advocating for industrial policy and trade reform.
• The movement is characterized by a push against globalist elites and a focus on working-class and lower-middle-class Americans.

"Trump's version of populism, it's both cultural and economic, but it's really a push against an established order that's truly globalist in nature."

• Bannon describes Trump's populism as a challenge to globalist elites, emphasizing cultural and economic dimensions.

"We just got to start focusing on these folks and eventually we got to work out some policy that works, but we just got to F and make them make their not just America first but make the American citizen first."

• Bannon underscores the importance of prioritizing American citizens in policy-making, reflecting the core of economic nationalism.

• The 2008 financial crisis is seen as a catalyst for populist movements, exposing inequalities and lack of accountability among elites.
• The crisis highlighted the disconnect between the political establishment and ordinary Americans, fueling resentment and demand for change.
• Populism gained momentum as a response to the perceived failures of the political and economic elite in addressing the crisis's aftermath.

"None of the Elites in this country were ever held accountable for it, and so that lit a fuse that went off on the 8th of November, the early morning of the 9th of November of 2016."

• Bannon attributes the rise of populism to the lack of accountability for elites post-2008 financial crisis, culminating in Trump's election.

"The basic schmendrick underwrote all of that bailout and didn't get a bailout themselves; in fact, they got blown out of their equity."

• Bannon highlights the economic injustices faced by ordinary Americans during the financial crisis, fueling populist anger.

• The Republican party's strategy shifted from traditional conservatism to embracing populist themes under Trump's leadership.
• The failure of the Romney-Ryan campaign in 2012 highlighted the disconnect with working-class voters and the need for a new approach.
• Trump's success was partly due to his ability to connect with voters on issues like immigration, trade, and economic nationalism.

"Trump came in and says, well, actually, we're going to protect Social Security and Medicare...we're going to change the trade rules, we're going to cut immigration and try and raise wages that way."

• Bannon outlines Trump's break from traditional conservatism, focusing on protecting social programs and advocating for economic nationalism.

"The nomenclature from everybody else was all the same, but it didn't have any depth to it. It didn't resonate, it didn't grab people viscerally."

• Bannon contrasts Trump's populist rhetoric with traditional Republican discourse, emphasizing its visceral appeal to voters.

• The concept of an emerging Democratic majority was challenged by the presence of "missing white voters" who could be mobilized by a populist agenda.
• Trump's appeal to culturally conservative and economically disaffected voters, including some Hispanic voters, reshaped the political landscape.
• The focus on working-class issues and economic nationalism appealed to voters previously overlooked by both parties.

"The most powerful idea in sort of elite discourse about politics was this idea that there was a sort of emerging Democratic majority...but there were all these voters right who didn't turn out for Romney who could turn out for a Republican."

• Bannon discusses the misconception of an emerging Democratic majority, highlighting the potential of mobilizing disaffected voters.

"There were a lot of Hispanic voters who weren't actually interested in necessarily voting for open borders...who were culturally conservative."

• Bannon notes the overlooked potential of Hispanic voters who align with culturally conservative and populist values.

• The discussion centers around the transformation within the Republican Party, particularly with the rise of populism as exemplified by Donald Trump's campaign and presidency.
• The narrative highlights skepticism about Trump's potential success during his initial campaign, with political figures like Steuart Stevens doubting the existence of Trump's voter base.
• The conversation acknowledges an inflection point in American political history, marked by unexpected victories like Dave Brat's defeat of Eric Cantor, signaling a shift towards anti-immigration populism.

"Trump is trying to get voters who just aren't there. He's like going up the river beating the drums, you know, trying to summon voters from the hills, and they're just not there."

• This quote reflects the initial disbelief among political analysts about Trump's potential to mobilize a significant voter base.

"I would actually say that was an inflection point in American history because it got me excited about what the possibilities were and what the math was."

• The speaker identifies a turning point in American politics, where populist strategies began to show potential for electoral success.

• Immigration is a central theme, with arguments made for a moratorium on all immigration to prioritize American citizens in the job market.
• The discussion critiques the capitalist system for driving down wages through immigration and visa programs, affecting lower-skilled workers, particularly minorities.
• The narrative links immigration policy to broader economic concerns, arguing that the existing system burdens the working and middle classes while benefiting wealthy elites.

"I want a moratorium on all immigration right now because I want American citizens to get a shot at the brass ring which they deserve since the entire world's economic system is on their shoulders."

• The speaker advocates for halting immigration to give American workers a fair opportunity in the job market.

"It's the reason you have no Hispanics or blacks; there's no shot to get in Silicon Valley. It's not because Americans are dumber or lazy; it's because you have a globalist system."

• This quote highlights the perceived barriers for minorities in tech industries, attributed to systemic economic policies favoring global labor markets.

• The conversation critiques the lack of substantial populist policy implementation during Trump's first term, particularly in infrastructure and industrial policy.
• The speaker reflects on the challenges of enacting populist policies within a coalition government that included traditional Republican elements.
• The discussion emphasizes the need for a more cohesive populist-nationalist policy framework to bridge the gap between campaign promises and actual governance.

"The Coalition doesn't want industrial policy; they don't want the big deal spending, and so that doesn't happen."

• This quote underscores the internal conflicts within the Republican coalition that hindered the execution of populist policies.

"There's a gap between the populist-nationalist promise and the populist-nationalist delivery, and that has got to be in policy."

• The speaker acknowledges the disconnect between populist rhetoric and the actual policy outcomes, stressing the need for effective policy development.

• The narrative explores the concept of deconstructing the administrative state as a means to reduce government overreach and empower populist governance.
• The discussion highlights efforts to create a network of think tanks and intellectuals to develop serious policy alternatives aligned with populist goals.
• The speaker expresses pride in challenging the entrenched bureaucratic structures, aiming for a more accountable and responsive government.

"This is why Gorsuch is on the Supreme Court; this is why Kavanaugh, to a degree, this is a young group of intellectual people in the Judiciary that are very focused on this fourth branch of government."

• The quote illustrates the strategic placement of judicial figures to support the dismantling of bureaucratic power.

"The deconstruction of the administrative state... has to be deconstructed, and that's one of the things so proud of."

• The speaker emphasizes the importance of reducing the influence of the permanent government to achieve populist objectives.

• The conversation addresses the economic grievances of blue-collar and middle-class voters, particularly in relation to immigration and inflation.
• The narrative suggests that populist messaging on economic issues resonates with voters who feel neglected by traditional parties.
• The discussion highlights the importance of delivering concrete economic benefits to voters as a means of consolidating populist support.

"The first step is just to say these guys have done nothing but screw you the entire time. Why are you continuing to vote for them?"

• The quote reflects a strategy to appeal to disillusioned voters by highlighting the failures of the opposing party.

"It's not the lawlessness, the schools, the medical, which is all terrible because of the flooding of this, and the elite don't care because they don't deal with it."

• This quote underscores the perceived disconnect between elite policymakers and the everyday challenges faced by working-class communities.

• A significant faction within the Republican Party aims to maintain low taxes for the upper class by cutting programs like Medicaid.
• There is a debate about the need for separate bills addressing tax policy for the donor class and spending cuts.
• Concerns about the potential increase in taxes if spending is not controlled, with a focus on fiscal responsibility in upcoming fiscal years.
• Emphasis on cutting defense spending and involving the wealthy in the process of reducing government expenditure.

"We need two bills... on tax policy for the donor class and the Wall Street Journal... they want the permanent installation of the Trump tax cuts."

• The speaker argues for separate legislative approaches to address different aspects of tax policy and spending.

"If you don't help us cut spending... your taxes are going to go up and not just your income taxes."

• The speaker suggests that without spending cuts, taxes will increase, urging the wealthy to support reducing government expenditure.

• The speaker supports tax cuts for the working class and emphasizes the need for spending cuts to balance the budget.
• Proposes significant spending cuts starting with defense, while Medicare and Social Security remain untouched.
• Advocates for increased taxes on the wealthy if spending cuts alone cannot close the budget gap.

"If we don't get the cuts and the wealthy don't have some cuts... we can't keep borrowing at a trillion dollars every hundred days."

• The need for spending cuts and potential tax increases on the wealthy to achieve fiscal stability is highlighted.

"I think it's spending cuts and if it has to be increased taxes... to get focused on cutting government spending."

• The speaker believes that incentivizing the wealthy to participate in spending cuts is crucial for financial stability.

• The concept of "technofeudalism" is introduced, describing Silicon Valley's influence and monopolistic practices.
• Criticism of the Obama administration's deal with Silicon Valley, allowing monopolistic growth in exchange for technological dominance.
• The speaker argues that Silicon Valley's business model devalues human individuality and promotes transhumanism.

"They're oligarchs who believe in technofeudalism... they don't consider that everything's digital to them."

• Silicon Valley's leaders are accused of promoting a system that reduces human value to digital metrics.

"In technofeudalism, you're just a digital serf... they are at the end of the day transhumanists."

• The speaker criticizes the transhumanist agenda, suggesting it undermines human worth and individuality.

• Discussion on the ambitions of Silicon Valley regarding artificial intelligence and transhumanism.
• Concerns about the ethical implications of enhancing humans through technology.
• Emphasis on the potential societal impact and personal dilemmas posed by technological advancements.

"You're going to have to make a choice in your own life... do I do this... will I get left behind?"

• The speaker highlights the personal and societal challenges posed by technological enhancements.

"Elon's one of the top accelerationists about driving this thing faster... you're going to have to make a choice."

• Elon Musk is portrayed as a key figure in advancing transhumanism, raising ethical and societal questions.

• Skepticism about the Trump administration's ability to address the challenges posed by Silicon Valley and AI.
• Criticism of the Biden administration's approach to regulating technology and its antitrust efforts.
• The need for a balanced approach to regulation that encourages innovation while addressing ethical concerns.

"I don't see this critique that you're offering... expressed in any kind of powerful way in the Trump White House."

• The speaker questions the Trump administration's commitment to addressing the ethical challenges of technology.

"The Biden Administration reneged on the deal... they did antitrust stuff."

• The speaker acknowledges the Biden administration's regulatory efforts but criticizes their approach to Silicon Valley.

• The discussion highlights the tension between AI development in the U.S. and China, emphasizing the need for strategic control over AI technologies.
• Debate on whether a centralized approach to AI, as seen in Biden's administration, is preferable to a more fragmented technological proliferation.
• Concerns about China's advancements in AI and the implications for U.S. national security.

"If AI is a threat to our humanity and it's going to happen in some form, it's going to happen in China in some form, right? Wouldn't it be better to have the Biden approach of a kind of state capture of AI than to have endless proliferating technology?"

• This quote raises the question of whether centralized control over AI is more beneficial for national security than unregulated technological growth.

• The speaker identifies as a populist nationalist, advocating for policies that prioritize national interests and the common citizen.
• Criticism of nationalism as a concept that can lead to negative outcomes, but the speaker distinguishes populist nationalism as a positive force.
• Emphasis on the need for the U.S. to remain competitive against China and other global powers.

"No, we're populist nationalist. So I've had long odds before. This one's long odds now."

• The speaker expresses commitment to populist nationalism, despite challenges and skepticism from others.

• Discussion on the influence of tech moguls like Elon Musk and Andre, who are described as "techn feudalist" rather than populist.
• Concerns about the concentration of power in Silicon Valley and the impact on American citizens and entrepreneurs.
• Criticism of tech companies seeking government bailouts and subsidies, likening it to a modern-day Sputnik moment.

"Andre and Musk are smart enough to be able to get below the surface on the numbers and see the direction of the country and climb on board as the techn feudalist early on."

• The quote highlights the perception of tech leaders as prioritizing economic power over populist ideals.

• Advocacy for breaking up large tech companies to foster competition and prevent monopolistic practices.
• Support for regulatory figures like Lina Khan to have more power in enforcing antitrust laws.
• Call for public debate on government spending and taxation, especially concerning AI and tech industries.

"I would love to see Lina Khan give him more power, and I think we ought to go and break up Silicon Valley."

• The speaker supports stronger antitrust measures to reduce the power of large tech companies.

• Discussion on Trump's significant influence over the populist movement and his ability to shape policy directions.
• Trump is portrayed as a leader who listens to multiple perspectives and makes decisions based on common sense.
• The speaker expresses unwavering support for Trump, even when there are policy disagreements.

"On our movement, the core base of MAGA is hard welded to Donald Trump because they admire his moral clarity."

• The quote emphasizes Trump's central role in the populist movement and the loyalty of his supporters.

• The conversation explores the idea that the future of humanity and global politics hinges on the decisions made by Trump and his administration.
• The speaker suggests that the coming years will be critical for shaping the direction of the U.S. and its role in the world.
• The importance of engaging in public discourse and making informed decisions on major issues is stressed.

"The fundamental questions about this Republic and the sovereignty of it, and about the direction of humankind, are all going to play out in the next four or five years."

• The quote underscores the belief that the next few years are pivotal for addressing significant global and national issues.