Joe Rogan Experience #2252 - Wesley Huff

Joe Rogan hosts Wes Huff on his podcast, discussing Huff's expertise in biblical texts and ancient history. They delve into Huff's debate with Billy Carson, highlighting Carson's lack of depth in religious knowledge and subsequent legal threats. Huff shares his background, growing up in a missionary family and overcoming a childhood paralysis, which fueled his passion for religious studies. He explains the meticulous process of verifying biblical texts through historical and linguistic analysis, emphasizing the importance of understanding ancient contexts. The conversation also touches on broader themes of faith, history, and the challenges of interpreting ancient texts in modern times.

• Wes was introduced to Joe Rogan's audience through a debate with Billy Carson.
• The debate highlighted Wes's expertise in religious texts, particularly the Bible, contrasting with Carson's surface-level knowledge.
• The fallout from the debate included legal threats from Carson, who attempted to prevent the release of the discussion.

"I like many people was introduced to you because of the debate that you had with Billy Carson...when he was on with you it was quite apparent that you are an actual expert in the Bible and in many religious texts."

• This quote emphasizes the contrast in knowledge levels between Wes and Billy Carson, showcasing Wes's expertise.

• Carson issued cease-and-desist letters to prevent the use of his name and image from the debate.
• Wes, being Canadian, was not worried about these legal threats due to jurisdictional challenges.

"The fallout was that not only did he not want us to release the conversation, but then he started throwing out cease and desist letters and then he started trying to sue people."

• The quote highlights Carson's attempts to control the narrative post-debate through legal means.

• Wes was asked to participate in the debate with minimal preparation but was confident due to his extensive knowledge of the subject matter.
• The debate underscored the importance of thorough research and understanding when discussing complex topics like ancient texts and religious history.

"I had like the least amount of preparation going into it...I knew enough about the ways that he'd articulated things about the ancient Near East and the Bible."

• This quote illustrates Wes's confidence in his expertise, even with limited preparation time.

• Understanding ancient languages is crucial for accurate interpretation of religious texts.
• Wes has studied multiple ancient languages, which aids in his analysis of historical texts.

"I've studied a number of ancient languages and when you study the languages you realize the complexities of these things."

• The quote emphasizes the importance of language study in comprehending ancient texts accurately.

• The debate was organized by a mutual acquaintance of Wes and Carson, who believed he was providing Carson with an opportunity he desired.
• Carson was aware of the debate's format and topics, contrary to his later claims.

"He'd been given all of the prerequisites like he knew we're going to go over some of his stuff that he'd said about Christianity."

• This quote clarifies that Carson was informed about the debate's nature and topics.

• Wes grew up in a diverse religious environment and was encouraged to explore various worldviews.
• A personal health crisis at a young age led Wes to deeply investigate his faith and religious beliefs.

"I grew up in a Christian home...we had the Bhagavad Gita and the Book of Mormon and the Quran on the shelf."

• The quote reflects Wes's diverse religious upbringing and openness to exploring different beliefs.

• Wes experienced a miraculous recovery from a neurological condition, which influenced his perspective on life and faith.
• This experience motivated him to pursue athletics and a deeper understanding of his faith.

"I experienced this what I consider to be a true supernatural experience in that I walked into the hospital to the doctors that had overseen me."

• The quote highlights Wes's recovery and how it shaped his approach to life and faith.

• Initially intending to join the police force, Wes shifted his focus to religious studies during university.
• Engaging with people of different faiths in university led Wes to further investigate the authenticity of the Bible.

"I went to university with full intention of going into the police force...but then realizing around my third year of university that my passions and motivations were very different."

• This quote underscores Wes's change in career direction, influenced by his growing interest in religious studies.

• The Dead Sea Scrolls are the oldest known copies of the Old Testament, dating back to between the 3rd century BC and the 1st century BC.
• The discovery of the Scrolls pushed back the timeline of known biblical manuscripts by a thousand years.

"The Dead Sea Scrolls are the oldest of the Old Testament...they pushed back a lot of our previous oldest manuscripts a thousand years."

• The quote highlights the significance of the Dead Sea Scrolls in biblical scholarship.

• Wes emphasizes the importance of methodology in historical research and the need for rigorous criteria when analyzing texts.
• The debate with Carson touched on the differences between self-taught knowledge and formal academic training.

"I kept asking, what are the criteria that you're using when you're looking at one source versus another source and coming up with a conclusion."

• The quote illustrates the need for a structured approach in historical research and analysis.

• Ancient languages like Sumerian and Hebrew have unique challenges, including differences in writing systems and pronunciation.
• Understanding these languages is essential for accurate historical interpretation.

"Hebrew is completely the opposite because the writing system is so different the learning curve is hard at the beginning."

• The quote highlights the complexities involved in learning and interpreting ancient languages.

• Wes's research is extensive and involves studying ancient texts, languages, and the historical context of religious beliefs.
• His dedication to understanding these subjects is evident in his comprehensive approach to research.

"I've probably watched probably 20 hours of your stuff over the last couple weeks and you've spent a lot of time on this."

• The quote acknowledges Wes's deep commitment to his research and expertise in the field.

• In the Middle Ages, Masoretic scribes developed vowel pointing systems for Hebrew texts, which are crucial for understanding the language today.
• The evolution of written language is ongoing, with changes like the abandonment of cursive writing in modern times.
• Future generations may struggle to read cursive, which was once a standard form of writing.

"In the Middle Ages, the Masoretic scribes come up with these vowel pointing systems, and that's what you see when you look at a Hebrew Bible today."

• This highlights the historical development of written language systems and their lasting impact.

• Language models are diverse, with different cultures developing unique writing systems.
• Translation of texts, such as the Bible, has historically been a contentious issue, with figures like Martin Luther advocating for translations into vernacular languages.
• The Protestant Reformation was partly fueled by a desire for accessible religious texts.

"Martin Luther wanted to have phonetic translations of the Bible, and there was a lot of resistance to that."

• The quote underscores the historical struggle for accessible religious texts and the resistance faced by reformers.

• Religious institutions have historically wielded significant power, often controlling access to sacred texts.
• This power dynamic can lead to abuses and cult-like behaviors, where leaders manipulate followers.
• The Protestant Reformation challenged these power structures by advocating for personal access to religious texts.

"When beings are the sole purveyors of truth, it becomes a problem. It's power, it's too much power."

• Emphasizes the dangers of concentrated power in religious institutions and the potential for abuse.

• Cults often start with appealing ideals but can lead to manipulation and control by charismatic leaders.
• Documentaries and studies of cults reveal the psychological appeal of absolute belief systems.
• The Mormon Church is discussed as an example of a belief system with unique doctrines and practices.

"There's something about people absolutely believing things that's so appealing to me."

• Reflects the fascination with the psychological aspects of belief and the dynamics within cults.

• Ancient texts have been preserved through meticulous copying and oral traditions.
• The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls provided insight into the accuracy of biblical texts over millennia.
• Textual criticism is a field dedicated to analyzing and tracing the origins of ancient manuscripts.

"The Dead Sea Scrolls...you have the exact translation at a time where most people were illiterate."

• Highlights the remarkable preservation of ancient texts and the role of textual criticism in understanding them.

• Ancient civilizations like Egypt and Mesopotamia achieved remarkable feats in architecture and writing.
• The construction of monuments like the pyramids and ziggurats reflects advanced knowledge and cultural motivations.
• The preservation of artifacts and historical sites is crucial for understanding ancient history.

"Egypt is one of the wildest places you'll ever go...4,000-year-old paint on the walls."

• Illustrates the enduring legacy and mysteries of ancient civilizations, emphasizing the importance of preservation.

• Archaeology is dependent on funding and governmental support, which can limit the excavation of significant sites.
• The study of ancient sites like Göbekli Tepe and the Great Pyramid of Giza continues to reveal new insights.
• Restoration efforts must balance preserving original structures with modern interventions.

"Archaeology is tricky because so much of it is dependent on governments and institutions and funding."

• Points out the challenges faced by archaeologists in preserving and studying historical sites.

• Ancient cultures developed various timekeeping systems, often based on astronomical observations.
• Calendars and time systems varied significantly across different civilizations.
• The development of standardized calendars was a significant advancement in human history.

"Calendars were all over the place...the Julian calendar and the Gregorian calendar."

• Highlights the diversity and complexity of ancient timekeeping systems and their evolution over time.

• European colonization led to the collapse of indigenous civilizations in the Americas due to disease and conquest.
• The loss of life and culture was immense, with millions of indigenous people dying from introduced diseases.
• The historical accounts of these civilizations reveal their sophistication and the tragedy of their decline.

"Millions of people died here, millions of people died there...how many times has this happened in history?"

• Reflects on the devastating impact of colonization and disease on indigenous cultures and the loss of historical knowledge.

• Recent archaeological findings using technologies like LIDAR reveal that the Amazon was densely populated and much of the rainforest is a result of ancient man-made agriculture.
• History is an ever-evolving field with constant discoveries that challenge our understanding of ancient civilizations and their origins.

"One of the things that they're discovering now in the Amazon which is so fascinating is through use of lidar you know they're discovering like oh my God this is like all populated this whole thing was populated."

• LIDAR technology is revolutionizing our understanding of ancient populations and their impact on the environment.

• Different cultures have varied creation stories that reflect their understanding of the world and humanity's place in it.
• The Babylonian creation story, Enuma Elish, contrasts with the Genesis creation story, highlighting cultural differences in the perception of the world's origin.
• The Genesis account presents a counter-narrative to other ancient beliefs, emphasizing purpose and intentional creation.

"You read Genesis chap 1 and it says in the beginning God creates the heavens and the Earth and he makes it good."

• The Genesis creation story offers a perspective of a purposeful and good creation, contrasting with the Babylonian view of chaos and randomness.

• Ancient cultures often depicted the sea and sea monsters as symbols of chaos and unpredictability.
• The Bible and other ancient texts use these symbols to convey themes of order and divine control over chaos.

"The Leviathan in Job which is this you know sea monster and it's representational in a way of chaos."

• The Leviathan symbolizes chaos, and its mention in the Bible illustrates God's power over chaotic forces.

• Burial practices have evolved over time, with evidence of intentional burials by ancient hominids suggesting complex social behaviors.
• These practices challenge our understanding of early human and hominid capabilities and cultural development.

"They buried their dead uh and that they did so in a cave."

• Evidence of ancient hominids burying their dead indicates advanced social and cultural practices.

• There is ongoing debate about the compatibility of intelligent design and evolutionary theory.
• Some advocate for intelligent design, suggesting purposeful creation, while others explore theistic evolution as a possible explanation.

"I ultimately would be an advocate for intelligent design where I would say that um that God purposefully created Humanity."

• Intelligent design posits that humanity was purposefully created, contrasting with purely naturalistic explanations of evolution.

• The nature of dark matter and dark energy is a significant mystery in cosmology, with new theories challenging existing models.
• The Timescape model suggests that differences in time perception in voids and matter-dense areas could explain cosmic expansion without dark energy.

"The Timescape model amends this by considering differences of time in void and matter dense areas."

• The Timescape model offers an alternative explanation for cosmic expansion, questioning the necessity of dark energy.

• The discovery of ancient manuscripts, like the John Rylands papyrus, has reshaped scholarly understanding of biblical texts' dating.
• These findings demonstrate the complexity and historical depth of religious documents, challenging previous assumptions about their origins.

"This manuscript that most likely comes from Oxyrhynchus Egypt is the one that usually is universally accepted as our oldest one."

• The John Rylands papyrus is significant for dating the Gospel of John to the first century, impacting biblical scholarship.

• The resurrection of Jesus is a central claim of Christianity, with historical implications and debates surrounding its validity.
• Accounts of post-resurrection appearances and the transformation of Jesus' followers are key points in the discussion.

"Paul says that Jesus appeared to the disciples and then he appeared to 400 people all at once."

• The claim of Jesus' resurrection appearances to many witnesses is a foundational element of Christian belief and its historical examination.

• The Big Bang theory presents a scientific explanation for the universe's origin, yet it raises questions about the necessity of a miraculous event.
• The comparison between scientific and religious explanations of creation highlights the interplay between faith and science.

"Science requires one miracle: the Big Bang."

• The Big Bang as a singular miraculous event parallels religious miracle claims, challenging the boundaries between science and faith.

• Concepts of time and the universe's structure are continually evolving, with theories like the Timescape model offering new perspectives.
• The complexity of cosmological theories reflects the vastness and mystery of the universe.

"Time moves much slower in matter dense areas like the Milky Way galaxies than in voids."

• The Timescape model's approach to time highlights the intricate and dynamic nature of the universe's expansion.

• Scholars have examined Roman crucifixion methods and Gospel descriptions to hypothesize that Jesus likely died from asphyxiation.
• The likelihood of Jesus surviving crucifixion and appearing fine three days later is considered extremely low.
• Differences in timekeeping between Roman and Jewish conventions may explain discrepancies in the Gospels regarding the timeline of Jesus' death and resurrection.

"The chances of Jesus surviving the crucifixion I think are narrow to none, and the chance of him appearing three days later completely fine... the first thing you say is not, you know, peace be with you, it's get me to a hospital."

• The quote highlights the improbability of surviving crucifixion and appearing healthy shortly after.

"With Jews, any part of a day was considered a day... so if Jesus... it's very possible that it wasn't like how we would think of 3 24-hour days."

• This explains how the counting of days in Jewish tradition could lead to differing interpretations of the resurrection timeline.

• The Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John provide varying perspectives, with Matthew and John attributed to direct disciples.
• Luke and Mark were not eyewitnesses but used historical writing conventions to compile their accounts.
• Ancient biographers like Quintilian emphasized interviewing eyewitnesses, a method Luke claimed to follow.

"Luke prefaces his gospel by saying that he... uses writing conventions of the day that would fit within regular biography that was written within the Roman world."

• Luke's approach to writing his Gospel is aligned with accepted historical methods of his time, emphasizing eyewitness accounts.

• Ancient denials of Jesus' resurrection often stemmed from philosophical beliefs, such as Gnostic views that rejected the physicality of Jesus.
• Gnostic groups believed in the superiority of the spiritual over the physical, leading to the denial of Jesus' physical resurrection.
• No concrete denial of the resurrection exists in ancient texts until much later documents like the Gospel of Barnabas.

"The only ones from the ancient world that deny his resurrection are groups that come on afterwards... because they have incorporated ideas of Pagan philosophy."

• This highlights the philosophical basis for denying the resurrection rather than historical evidence.

• The ancient world was generally accepting of supernatural events, seeing them as plausible within their cultural context.
• Skepticism was more directed at the idea of worshipping a crucified individual rather than the supernatural events themselves.
• Writers like Plutarch, who was a priest of Apollo, assumed the existence of gods and miraculous occurrences.

"The ancient world didn't really have a problem with Supernatural events... there's no such thing as like a secular work in the ancient world."

• The quote underscores the cultural acceptance of supernatural events and the integration of religious beliefs into daily life.

• Historians use inference to the best explanation, weighing probabilities of historical events based on available evidence.
• Jesus has a significant amount of historical evidence compared to other figures of his time, like the Roman Emperor Tiberius.
• Non-Christian sources often describe what Christians believed about Jesus rather than independent verification of events.

"We have more evidence from different writings in the ancient world than we probably should have for someone of his stature."

• This indicates the unusually high amount of historical documentation for Jesus compared to other contemporaneous figures.

• Early Christians were seen as atheistic due to their rejection of polytheism in favor of monotheism.
• Christians faced persecution as their beliefs were thought to anger the gods, leading to societal calamities being blamed on them.
• Constantine's Edict of Milan in 313 decriminalized Christianity, promoting religious tolerance within the Roman Empire.

"Christians are this very unusual group because they're monotheistic in a world that does not believe in monotheism."

• Early Christian monotheism was seen as radical and led to significant persecution in a predominantly polytheistic society.

• The early Christian community engaged in discussions to determine the Canon of Scripture, resulting in the 27 books of the New Testament.
• The four Gospels were universally accepted early on, while other texts were scrutinized for apostolic authenticity.
• Some texts were excluded due to reliance on existing scriptures or incorporation of foreign philosophical ideas.

"The earliest Christians are Jews who believe in Jesus as the Messiah... they start to have these conversations of what are the writings and where can we find them."

• The process of canonization was rooted in Jewish tradition and the anticipation of written texts following divine promises.

• Modern scholars use methodologies like onomastic congruence to verify the historical accuracy of biblical texts.
• Name frequency studies help pinpoint the geographical and temporal origins of texts, distinguishing authentic accounts from later forgeries.
• Such analyses reveal that non-biblical gospels often fail tests of historical consistency and accuracy.

"We look at the most popular names within a particular geographical area... and we compare it to how names are differentiated."

• The use of name studies provides a method for confirming the authenticity and accuracy of biblical narratives.

• Discussions on the nature of Jesus and his divinity explore whether he was an archetype or a literal son of God.
• The conversation touches on the implications of Jesus' teachings and their impact on personal and communal life.
• The role of faith and belief in interpreting historical and religious narratives is a central theme.

"If you do live like a Christian and you do follow the principles of Christ, you will have a richer more love-filled life."

• The quote reflects on the transformative potential of Christian teachings, regardless of one's belief in the divinity of Jesus.