Joe Rogan Experience #2210 - Calley Means & Casey Means, MD

In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, Joe Rogan hosts Casey Means and her brother as they discuss the deep-rooted issues within the healthcare and food industries. They uncover the pervasive influence of pharmaceutical and food companies on public health policies, highlighting how these corporations profit from chronic diseases and misinformation. The conversation delves into the alarming rise of metabolic dysfunction, obesity, and other health crises, attributing them to systemic corruption and flawed incentives. They emphasize the need for a radical overhaul in healthcare, advocating for a focus on metabolic health and preventive care, while urging listeners to challenge the status quo and push for systemic change.

• The speakers discuss their background in Washington DC and their initial support for the pharmaceutical and food industries.
• They highlight their experiences in lobbying and steering funds to influential figures to downplay the issues of opioids and unhealthy food products.
• They express a realization that major industries profit from health issues, especially in children, by promoting addictive and unhealthy products.

"We were born and raised in Washington DC and I thought being a good young conservative was supporting the farm industry supporting the food industry defending those Industries."

• Initial belief in supporting major industries as a conservative value.

"I realized fundamentally that we are profiting the biggest industries the biggest Spenders in the country are profiting from kids particularly getting addicted sick and fear and then drugging them and profiting from that."

• Realization of the profit-driven motives of major industries at the expense of public health.

• The discussion touches on how good people in institutions are given plausible deniability to ignore the negative impacts of their actions.
• The structure of the system allows individuals to justify harmful actions as beneficial innovations.
• There is a disconnection between the intentions of individuals and the larger harmful outcomes.

"Nobody's in those back rooms conspiring and trying to be an evil person they're literally talking to these Junior staffers like me about the scourge of pain."

• Explanation of how individuals justify harmful actions as addressing legitimate issues.

"In the rooms, it's about doing what's right and getting this Innovation to the American people and everyone can kind of fool themselves."

• The belief that actions are justified as beneficial innovations despite negative impacts.

• Major institutions in the US have been captured by industries that profit from public health issues.
• There is an existential threat from the healthcare, food, and military-industrial complexes.
• The speakers express concern over societal collapse due to these influences.

"I think there's like pings of Consciousness trying to alert us to this like you know you having people on that are calling this stuff out trying to Ring the Alarm Bell."

• Awareness of institutional capture and the need for public awareness.

"We're on the verge of almost a societal level collapse with what's happening to our food what's happening to our health what's happening with the potential nuclear war."

• Fear of societal collapse due to captured institutions and health issues.

• The speakers highlight the alarming health statistics in the US, including obesity, diabetes, dementia, and cancer rates.
• There is an emphasis on metabolic dysfunction as a root cause of many health issues.
• The current healthcare system is reactive and not focused on addressing root causes.

"74% of Americans are overweight or obese, 50% now of American adults have type 2 diabetes or pre-diabetes."

• Alarming health statistics indicating a widespread health crisis.

"It's all caused by metabolic dysfunction, a term that I never learned in medical school."

• Identification of metabolic dysfunction as a root cause of health issues.

• The speakers discuss the interconnectedness of human health and environmental health.
• They emphasize the need to address the root causes of health issues by considering environmental factors.
• There is a call for a holistic approach to health that considers the broader ecosystem.

"Our human health is simply a reflection of the destroyed ecosystem of our globe."

• Human health is directly linked to environmental health.

"We have forgotten that we're completely connected to Nature and we're completely interdependent with nature."

• Emphasis on the need to recognize the interconnectedness of human and environmental health.

• The discussion covers the increase in early puberty rates among girls and the environmental factors contributing to it.
• Plastics and pesticides are identified as sources of exogenous estrogens that affect puberty.
• The speakers call for connecting the dots to understand the environmental impact on health.

"What drives early puberty is excess estrogens right we're like we're pushing estrogens to basically spark that whole process of puberty."

• Explanation of how environmental estrogens contribute to early puberty.

"We've got plastic effing everywhere it's literally in the air we're breathing the Nano particles it's in our food it's in our water."

• Highlighting the pervasive presence of plastics and their impact on health.

• The healthcare system is criticized for being overly specialized and siloed, leading to fragmented care.
• The business model of healthcare incentivizes volume over outcomes.
• There is a lack of holistic understanding of health as interconnected systems.

"The business model of American Healthcare right now is volume it's how many people can you see and so that's what you get paid for."

• Critique of the healthcare system's focus on volume over patient outcomes.

"We are not trained to see the body as a unified system we're trained to see it as 20 30 different parts."

• The lack of holistic understanding in medical training.

• The speakers call for a change in clinical guidelines to focus on metabolic health and lifestyle interventions.
• There is a need for moral courage to challenge established institutions and promote holistic health.
• The discussion emphasizes the importance of individual and collective action to address health and environmental issues.

"The solution is truly just having the clinical guidelines of how diseases are assessed and how they're intervened changed to following the science."

• The need for a shift in clinical guidelines to address root causes.

"It takes that moral courage it takes Americans actually saying no I am going to go against the NIH I am going to ask questions."

• The importance of moral courage in challenging established institutions.

• The speakers discuss a deeper spiritual and consciousness issue underlying the health and environmental crises.
• There is a call to reconnect with the miraculousness of life and the interconnectedness of all things.
• The discussion emphasizes the need for a shift in consciousness to address existential challenges.

"We have the technology the money and the resources to fix all of this the planet and health and we're not."

• The disconnect between available resources and action.

"Do we want to believe that humans are that that life is a miracle this universe is a miracle our bodies are Miracles?"

• The need to reconnect with the miraculousness of life and make conscious choices.

• Medical education often lacks comprehensive training in nutrition, environmental factors, and holistic health.
• There is a significant presence of conflicts of interest within the medical and food industry, influencing guidelines and research.
• The healthcare system is heavily reliant on pharmaceutical interventions, often overlooking lifestyle and preventative measures.

"I didn't learn at Stanford Medical School that 95% of the people on the USDA food guidelines for America committee had a conflict with the food industry."

• This quote highlights the lack of transparency and potential bias in the guidelines that shape medical education and public health policies.

"I certainly didn't learn that medical error and medication is the third leading cause of death in the United States."

• Emphasizes a critical gap in medical education regarding the risks and errors associated with medical practices and pharmaceuticals.

• Simple lifestyle changes, such as walking and getting sunlight, can significantly reduce the risk of chronic diseases.
• Modern lifestyles, characterized by reduced physical activity and poor sleep, contribute to widespread health issues.

"Simply taking 7,000 steps per day can slash your risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, Alzheimer's, dementia even gastric reflux by 40 to 60%."

• Demonstrates the profound impact of physical activity on reducing the risk of various chronic diseases.

"We're sleeping 20% less on average than we were a hundred years ago, and sleep is a huge risk factor."

• Highlights the critical role of sleep in maintaining health and how modern lifestyles have negatively impacted sleep patterns.

• The healthcare system is entrenched in a rigid paradigm that discourages innovation and holistic approaches.
• There is a need for courage and consciousness to challenge the status quo and promote health-focused practices.

"We need to pray for courage, we need to sit down every morning and decide what we want for the future."

• Calls for a shift in mindset towards proactive and courageous actions to improve healthcare and societal well-being.

"This is about team humanity and team Planet because they're interconnected."

• Emphasizes the interconnectedness of human health and environmental stewardship, advocating for collective responsibility.

• The Flexner Report and Rockefeller's influence shaped modern medical education, prioritizing pharmaceuticals over holistic approaches.
• The medical industry has historically focused on acute conditions, shifting towards chronic disease management for profit.

"John D. Rockefeller's personal lawyer wrote the report for Congress that basically set the standard that's the standard today for medical education."

• Illustrates how historical decisions have long-lasting impacts on medical education and practice.

"The birth control pill was the first pill in world history that people took for longer than a couple of weeks."

• Marks a significant shift in the pharmaceutical industry towards chronic medication use and recurring revenue models.

• The food industry, influenced by tobacco companies, has engineered ultra-processed foods to be addictive, contributing to chronic diseases.
• High-fructose corn syrup and other additives exacerbate metabolic dysfunction and health issues.

"The cigarette industry to promote their addictive products and this weaponization of food."

• Highlights the intentional manipulation of food products to create dependency and drive chronic health issues.

"High-fructose corn syrup is a weapon of mass destruction that basically food scientists used."

• Describes the detrimental impact of high-fructose corn syrup on health, likening it to a weapon due to its addictive properties.

• The U.S. allows numerous unregulated chemicals in food, unlike stricter regulations in Europe.
• Scientific research is often corrupted by industry interests, leading to misinformation and public health risks.

"We are being mass-drugged and poisoned in our food system with 10,000 virtually unregulated chemicals."

• Critiques the lack of regulation and oversight in the U.S. food system, resulting in widespread exposure to harmful substances.

"Over 100 NIH-funded Alzheimer's and Parkinson's research papers contain completely made-up data."

• Reveals the extent of corruption in scientific research, undermining public trust and effective policy-making.

• Metabolic dysfunction is a root cause of chronic diseases, including Alzheimer's, diabetes, and cardiovascular issues.
• Addressing metabolic health through lifestyle changes can significantly reduce the prevalence of these conditions.

"The brain uses 20% of the body's energy, and something that's happening in the body like diabetes is also happening in the brain."

• Connects metabolic dysfunction to neurological issues, emphasizing the need for holistic health approaches.

"If we just got on top of some of the basic modifiable factors of our metabolic health, we could slash Alzheimer's rates from happening."

• Suggests that lifestyle and metabolic health improvements could drastically reduce the incidence of Alzheimer's and other diseases.

• The healthcare and food systems are driven by economic incentives that prioritize profit over health.
• There is an urgent need for systemic change to address the growing burden of chronic diseases and healthcare costs.

"The largest and fastest-growing industry in the United States, it's not AI, it's not Tech, it's Healthcare."

• Highlights the unsustainable growth of the healthcare industry, driven by chronic disease management rather than prevention.

"We are literally thinking societally that the fact that there's an obesity crisis among six-year-olds is a drug deficiency issue."

• Criticizes the prevailing mindset that pharmaceutical solutions are the primary answer to lifestyle-related health issues.

• The discussion highlights the influence of pharmaceutical companies on obesity treatment, focusing on the drug OIC as a short-term solution rather than addressing root causes like diet and exercise.
• Concerns are raised about the aggressive marketing of obesity drugs to children and the potential long-term impacts.
• The conversation touches on the financial incentives for pharmaceutical companies to promote drugs as lifelong treatments.

"I'd never thought of that and I told them that it's being pushed on kids and that there's an aggressive effort where Dr. Fatima Cody Stanford, the top obesity researcher at Harvard, was funded significantly by Novo Nordisk in research grants."

• This quote illustrates the influence of pharmaceutical funding on obesity research and the potential bias it introduces in treatment recommendations.

"It's a lifetime drug because it's a crash diet. It's liquid anorexia. It makes you not want to eat."

• The quote underscores the concern that OIC is being marketed as a lifelong solution without addressing underlying health issues.

• The conversation delves into the systemic corruption in healthcare, highlighting the revolving door between government agencies and the pharmaceutical industry.
• There is a call for grassroots action to demand changes in healthcare policy, particularly concerning the influence of pharmaceutical companies.

"It's like the corruption is you have the Brad Winstrup. If somebody wants to do something, if we want to change the world, email members of Congress."

• This quote calls for public action to address corruption in healthcare and influence policy changes.

"The healthcare staffers in Congress are waiting for their next job with the Pharma industry or the insurance industry."

• This quote highlights the conflict of interest present in healthcare policy-making due to the career incentives of congressional staffers.

• The discussion touches on the political dynamics between RFK and Trump, focusing on their shared interest in addressing health issues and institutional corruption.
• There is an emphasis on the need for executive leadership to prioritize health policy reform and reduce pharmaceutical influence.

"These were sincere conversations about why kids are getting so diabetic, about why we have such obese children in the United States."

• This quote reflects the genuine concern of political leaders about the health crisis affecting children and the need for systemic change.

"Who is willing to go up against these military-industrial complex, the healthcare-industrial complex, the education-industrial complex?"

• The quote questions which political leaders have the courage to confront powerful industries that contribute to systemic problems.

• The conversation explores the implications of controlling information, particularly in the context of scientific research and public discourse.
• Concerns are raised about the potential use of AI to censor vaccine-related information and the broader impact on free speech.

"Bill Gates said this week that we need immediate AI to scour the internet and take any vaccine misinformation out."

• The quote highlights the tension between controlling misinformation and preserving free speech, particularly in the realm of public health.

"The largest and fastest-growing industry in the country has completely co-opted the most trusted parts of the country."

• This quote underscores the pervasive influence of the pharmaceutical industry on trusted institutions, affecting public perception and policy.

• The discussion emphasizes the need for reform in healthcare institutions to address the capture by pharmaceutical interests.
• There is a call for appointing leaders who are not influenced by industry interests to key positions in health agencies.

"Put someone who's not trying to get their next job at Pharma who's aligned with this fundamental agenda at the NIH, at the FDA, at the HHS."

• This quote advocates for appointing unbiased leaders to health agencies to ensure policies serve public health rather than industry interests.

"95% of NIH grants they are spending is on marginal pharmaceutical R&D. It's literally an outsourced R&D lab for Pharma."

• The quote criticizes the NIH's focus on pharmaceutical research at the expense of foundational health research, calling for a shift in priorities.

• The conversation highlights the potential of grassroots movements to drive change in public health policy and challenge the status quo.
• There is a belief in the power of public focus and engagement to overcome powerful industry interests.

"The only thing that beats money is grassroots focus is Americans focusing on the issue."

• This quote emphasizes the power of grassroots movements to effect change in public policy, even against well-funded industry interests.

"People want to be healthy. There's a huge system rigged against them."

• The quote challenges the narrative that individuals are solely responsible for their health, pointing to systemic barriers that need to be addressed.

• The current agricultural practices are unsustainable and harmful to both farmers and consumers, leading to chronic diseases and environmental damage.
• There is a need for a cultural shift in consumer buying habits to demand healthier and more sustainable agricultural practices.
• Public figures like RFK can influence societal norms and consumer behavior towards healthier lifestyles.

"We cannot continue with this mass poisoning of our farmland... it's terrible for our children and our bodies."

• Highlights the urgent need to reform current agricultural practices to prevent further harm to human health and the environment.

"If there's a moment in the Zeitgeist where a good percentage of people start shifting in a very particular direction... it could have a huge effect on the population."

• Suggests that societal momentum towards healthier living can significantly impact public health outcomes.

• The healthcare system is overly reliant on medications rather than preventative measures such as diet and exercise.
• There is a legal provision for doctors to prescribe food and exercise, which is underutilized.
• The healthcare industry is heavily influenced by pharmaceutical companies, affecting the definition and practice of medicine.

"We realized something that nobody in the healthcare system knows... I could write a prescription for food or exercise."

• Emphasizes the overlooked potential of prescribing lifestyle changes as a medical intervention.

"The definition of medicine is something that's recommended by a medical practitioner for the prevention, reversal, cure, mitigation of a condition."

• Challenges the conventional understanding of medicine, advocating for a broader definition that includes preventive measures.

• Chronic diseases, driven by poor metabolic health, are the leading causes of death and account for the majority of medical spending.
• Europe provides a model where dietary interventions are subsidized for conditions like PCOS, highlighting the effectiveness of non-pharmaceutical interventions.
• The current standard of care often ignores underlying causes of chronic conditions in favor of medication.

"We are facing a chronic disease metabolic health crisis... 95% of medical spending."

• Stresses the urgent need to address the root causes of chronic diseases through systemic changes.

"The standard of care is immediate jamming hormone pills down that woman's throat... IVF should absolutely of course be legal but that's an invasive procedure."

• Critiques the current medical approach to conditions like PCOS, advocating for less invasive, diet-based interventions.

• The farm bill and other governmental policies heavily subsidize unhealthy food production, contributing to public health issues.
• There is a need for political action and public awareness to reform these policies and prioritize healthy food systems.
• Lobbying by the pharmaceutical and agricultural industries skews public policy away from public health interests.

"We don't need to pay for the bad choices for people which is what we're doing."

• Criticizes the use of public funds to support unhealthy food choices and practices.

"The farm industry... rig the system and then we pay conservative influencers to say it's Nanny state to question the rigged system."

• Highlights the manipulation of public opinion and policy by powerful industry lobbies.

• Increased access to information via the internet is challenging traditional narratives and empowering individuals to make informed health decisions.
• There is a need for transparency and open discussion about the impacts of medications and the healthcare system.
• Public figures and media can play a crucial role in disseminating accurate health information.

"People are getting the information now in a way they've never gotten it before through the internet."

• Acknowledges the transformative power of digital information in raising public awareness about health issues.

"If all these medications were crushing it and there were no side effects everyone should probably take them."

• Questions the efficacy and safety of widespread medication use, advocating for informed decision-making.

• Societal norms and economic pressures contribute to unhealthy lifestyles and poor dietary habits.
• There is a cultural undervaluing of parenting and home-cooked meals, which impacts family health.
• The modern lifestyle, characterized by screen time and processed foods, detracts from physical and mental health.

"The fact that people can't afford that food is because we're subsidizing the shitty food."

• Points out the systemic issues that make healthy food unaffordable for many.

"Our brains and our bodies are basically getting destroyed and then it's a vicious downward cycle."

• Describes the negative feedback loop created by poor diet and lifestyle choices on mental and physical health.

• There is an urgent need for a systemic overhaul of healthcare and agricultural policies to prioritize health and sustainability.
• Individuals are encouraged to take personal responsibility for their health and advocate for systemic change.
• A collective shift towards recognizing the miracle of life and the importance of health can drive meaningful change.

"We have an opportunity to elevate consciousness here on this planet for future generations and we're choosing not to."

• Urges a reevaluation of societal priorities to focus on health and well-being for future generations.

"This life is a miracle and fighting for it."

• Calls for a fundamental shift in perspective to appreciate and protect the miraculous nature of life.