Joe Rogan Experience #1828 - Michio Kaku

Joe Rogan engages with renowned physicist Michio Kaku in a wide-ranging discussion about the evolving perception of UFOs, driven by military disclosures and scientific inquiry. Kaku emphasizes a cultural shift towards serious consideration of UFOs, citing the military's release of unexplained aerial phenomena footage and the New York Times' 2017 article as pivotal moments. They explore the potential of advanced civilizations, hypothesizing on technology that could manipulate gravity and time. The conversation also delves into humanity's future evolution, touching on genetic engineering and AI, and speculates on the implications of potential extraterrestrial contact.

• Discussion of the evolving cultural and scientific acceptance of UFOs, highlighting the transition from skepticism to serious inquiry.
• The release of military videos showing unexplained aerial phenomena has shifted the burden of proof from UFO proponents to the military.
• The 2017 New York Times article marked a significant change in the public and scientific discourse on UFOs.

"It used to be the third rail of a scientific establishment that if you talk about UFOs you were pretty much relegated to being in that case and the giggle Factor kicks in right?"

• UFOs were once a taboo topic in scientific circles, but this perception is changing.

"Now we have multiple sightings by multiple modes...the burden of proof has shifted to the Pentagon to the military now they have to prove that these aren't extraterrestrial."

• The standard of evidence has improved with multiple modes of observation, shifting the responsibility to disprove extraterrestrial explanations onto authorities.

• UFOs exhibit extraordinary capabilities such as traveling at Mach 5 to Mach 20, zigzagging, and submerging underwater without leaving exhaust trails or creating sonic booms.
• The physical forces experienced by these objects suggest they may be drones rather than piloted vehicles.
• The military's inability to replicate these capabilities suggests the technology is beyond current human advancements.

"These objects travel between Mach 5 and Mach 20...any living person's bones would be crushed by these objects so they're probably drones of some sort."

• The extreme speeds and forces suggest these are likely unmanned aerial vehicles.

"These objects can effortlessly break the sound barrier and not create a sonic boom and they don't create any exhaust."

• The absence of sonic booms and exhaust indicates a propulsion method unknown to current human technology.

• Multiple hypotheses exist regarding UFO origins, including misidentified weather phenomena, foreign technology, or extraterrestrial sources.
• The possibility of hypersonic drones is considered, but historical sightings predate known development of such technology.
• Advanced civilizations could potentially harness the Plank energy, allowing for manipulation of space and time.

"The Pentagon has listed I think five different options...but the last option is other...you can fill in the dots yourself."

• The military acknowledges the possibility of unknown origins beyond terrestrial technology.

"Any civilization that could harness the plank energy would be able to become masters of space and time."

• Advanced civilizations might manipulate space-time, explaining UFO capabilities.

• Discussion of the Kardashev scale categorizing civilizations by their energy consumption capabilities: Type I (planetary), Type II (stellar), and Type III (galactic).
• Human civilization is currently not yet Type I but is progressing towards it.
• Advanced civilizations capable of Type II or III could theoretically master space-time, potentially explaining UFO phenomena.

"We rank them the cev scale says that there could be type one type two or type three civilizations."

• The Kardashev scale provides a framework for understanding potential technological advancements of extraterrestrial civilizations.

"We're maybe a few thousand years from being from type two and we maybe a 100,000 years being from being type three."

• Human civilization is on a trajectory towards more advanced technological capabilities, potentially leading to space-time manipulation.

• The progression of human technology is outlined through stages: Industrial, Electric, Computer, Molecular, and Atomic.
• Future advancements could include brain-net, quantum computing, and fusion power.
• Technologies like Neuralink could revolutionize human interaction and communication, potentially leading to a universal brain language.

"We're entering stage four...meaning artificial intelligence nanotechnology and biotechnology."

• The current technological stage focuses on molecular-level advancements.

"The future of the internet internet 2.0 is brainet when we mentally control the internet."

• Brainet represents a future where human brains are directly connected to the internet, enabling new forms of communication.

• The concept of digital immortality involves recording a person's thoughts and personality for future interaction.
• Laser porting could enable digital consciousness to travel at light speed across the universe.
• This speculative technology suggests a new method of space exploration without physical travel.

"This gives you a form of digital immortality...you can talk to your great great great great great grandkids long after you're gone."

• Digital immortality allows for posthumous interaction with future generations.

"You digitize the human so all the responses of the human are on a digital signal you put it on a laser beam and shoot it to the moon in 1 second."

• Laser porting proposes a method of exploring space digitally, bypassing physical limitations.

• Exploration of theoretical physics concepts like wormholes and the Alcubierre drive for potential space travel.
• These concepts require immense energy, possibly negative energy, to manipulate space-time.
• Such technologies remain speculative but are theoretically possible within the laws of physics.

"Einstein with his student Nathan Rosen wrote a paper about wormholes...that connects one funnel Universe to another funnel universe."

• Wormholes could theoretically connect distant points in space-time.

"The alab Beer drive...compress the carpet in front of you expand the carpet behind you and then simply hop hop over to the other side."

• The Alcubierre drive suggests a method of space travel by contracting and expanding space-time around a spacecraft.

• The development of advanced technologies faces significant energy requirements and technical challenges.
• Theoretical concepts like negative energy and the Casimir effect are potential solutions for stabilizing wormholes.
• The future holds potential for significant breakthroughs in space travel and communication technologies.

"Energy as we know is positive but there is a situation where energy can become negative and that's called the Casmir effect."

• The Casimir effect provides a theoretical basis for negative energy, crucial for stabilizing wormholes.

"You would need negative energy on a fantastic scale Stellar scale in other words you're basically type three."

• Achieving type three civilization status is necessary for harnessing the energy required for advanced space travel technologies.

• Some species, like bees and ants, communicate without using traditional language, relying on chemicals and pheromones.
• Bees can communicate complex information, such as territorial issues, without human-understood language.
• Ants use a limited chemical vocabulary to communicate and establish societal functions, such as hierarchy and defense.

"These bees somehow or another knew that these other bees were not from there."

• Bees have a complex communication system that allows them to identify and interact with other hives without a formal language.

"When two ants meet, they exchange chemicals... we've tried to decipher that language."

• Ants communicate through chemical exchanges, which researchers are attempting to decode to understand ant society better.

• MIT has developed robot ants that mimic the communication of real ants using a limited vocabulary.
• The goal is to replicate complex ant societies using simple communication methods.

"Given a limited vocabulary between two ants, it's possible to construct ant society on the basis of a rather primitive language."

• Even with a limited set of communicative signals, ants can create complex societal structures.

• Leaf cutter ants develop intricate colonies with sophisticated structures for air circulation and farming.
• These ants use leaves to cultivate fungus, which serves as food for their larvae.

"Leaf cutter ants use leaves as their fertilizer to grow their crop fungus."

• Leaf cutter ants have a symbiotic relationship with fungi, showcasing a complex societal function without traditional language.

• Human language is tied to societal creation, making it difficult to achieve universal communication.
• The notion of recording and transferring memories bypasses language barriers, as seen in experiments with mice and primates.

"It's possible that memories may be in some sense universal."

• The potential to transfer memories directly between individuals could transcend language limitations.

• Experiments have shown that memories and skills can be transferred between mice and primates using electrical impulses.
• This research aims to develop memory chips for Alzheimer's patients, allowing them to recall lost memories.

"Memories can now be transferred to the same mouse over time or to another mouse."

• Memory transfer experiments demonstrate the potential for bypassing traditional language in communication.

• The concept of digital immortality involves recording and preserving human consciousness digitally.
• Current projects aim to map neural connections to create digital copies of brains, though this is still in early stages.

"Digital immortality is coming in stages."

• The pursuit of digital immortality involves gradually advancing technology to preserve human consciousness.

• AI development is progressing towards creating machines with advanced intelligence, potentially reaching the level of primates.
• Concerns arise about AI self-awareness and the potential risks of machines becoming independent from human control.

"By the end of the century, I think perhaps the intelligence of a monkey... they're potentially dangerous."

• As AI intelligence increases, the potential for machines to act independently poses significant ethical and safety concerns.

• The idea of "friendly AI" focuses on developing machines that prioritize cooperation and nurturing over competition.
• Economic incentives and philosophical shifts are necessary to drive AI development towards beneficial outcomes.

"We have to create a situation where we want to create robots that want cooperation and to build rather than to destroy."

• Encouraging cooperative AI development requires societal and economic motivation to prioritize positive interactions.

• Human evolution may involve integrating with technology, potentially losing aspects of creativity and emotion.
• Future humans might resemble the uniform, emotionless aliens often depicted in popular culture.

"If we didn't have sexual desire, if we didn't have ego... we would look like that."

• The potential future of human evolution involves shedding biological instincts, leading to a more uniform and efficient existence.

• Historical fears of creatures like Gremlins may influence modern perceptions of aliens, reflecting deep-seated subconscious fears.
• Sleep paralysis and vivid dreams contribute to the imagery of alien encounters.

"There's a subconscious fear in our brains that these objects are going to be dangerous to us."

• Subconscious fears manifest in the consistent imagery of alien encounters, rooted in historical and psychological factors.

• Alien depictions in pop culture often resemble a canonical form: small bodies, large heads, and big eyes, which may not reflect real extraterrestrial life.
• The galaxy contains 100 billion stars, and most likely, intelligent life forms exist, but they may not resemble humans.
• Intelligence isn't limited to human-like features; other forms of life, like octopuses, could develop intelligence over time.
• The human brain's perception of aliens is influenced by cultural imagery, not necessarily reality.

"The fact that we see these alien creatures look just like a dwarfish version of us is imprinted in our hippocampus and in our amygdala of our brain."

• The human brain is influenced by cultural depictions of aliens, affecting how we perceive extraterrestrial life.

• Octopuses display intelligence through problem-solving, such as opening jars and manipulating environments, despite lacking language.
• Dolphins and other sea creatures have complex communication systems, possibly with dialects, indicating intelligence.
• Efforts to decipher dolphin language are limited, though they show repetitive sounds indicative of communication.
• John Lilly's experiments aimed to communicate with dolphins but faced ethical and practical challenges.

"They have a language that we still have not deciphered. We still have not deciphered the language of dolphins and sea creatures."

• Dolphins possess a complex communication system that remains largely undeciphered, indicating a form of intelligence.

• Experiments on animals and humans have shown the effects of stimulating pleasure centers in the brain, often leading to neglect of basic needs.
• Historical studies on mice, dolphins, and humans revealed the consequences of self-stimulation, highlighting ethical concerns.
• Environmental factors significantly influence behavior in laboratory settings, as seen in studies with drugs and self-stimulation.

"The mouse would rather die of starvation than stop stimulating his pleasure center."

• Stimulating the pleasure center can lead to extreme behavior, as seen in experiments with mice, raising ethical questions.

• Experiments with mind control, such as those involving bulls and electromagnetic signals, raised ethical and practical concerns.
• The CIA's MK Ultra program explored mind control techniques, including the use of LSD, with controversial and secretive methods.
• Operation Midnight Climax involved testing LSD on unwitting subjects in brothels, revealing the extent of unethical experimentation.

"The CIA constructed something called MK Ultra... one of the motivations for MK Ultra, the fact that you could actually determine the behavior of a bull who's charging at you."

• MK Ultra aimed to explore mind control, motivated by Cold War fears, using controversial methods.

• Synchronicity, or coincidental thoughts and events, may be evolutionarily programmed to help the brain prioritize significant information.
• The brain tends to remember hits (significant events) and forget misses (insignificant ones), aiding in evolutionary survival.
• Psychic abilities remain unproven despite public fascination and historical attempts to verify them.

"The brain has to get rid of all the extraneous information because we'd be flooded with extraneous memories."

• The brain's ability to prioritize significant events over trivial ones is crucial for survival, explaining phenomena like synchronicity.

• Human evolution has slowed due to a lack of environmental pressures, with current changes occurring at a molecular level.
• Technological advancements, such as gene therapy and artificial enhancement, may drive future human evolution.
• Future enhancements could lead to deliberate changes in human traits, potentially improving intelligence and health.

"I think that for the most part, evolution has stopped, but other than that, chemically, we're still evolving."

• While anatomical evolution has slowed, molecular evolution continues, potentially influenced by technological advancements.

• Genetic diseases can be identified and eliminated through techniques like in vitro fertilization, altering human evolution.
• Future advancements may allow for more precise genetic manipulation, creating opportunities for designing better human beings.
• Gene therapy could eventually enable the elimination of hereditary diseases, shaping future human evolution.

"People can deliberately begin to alter the genetic makeup of their lineage."

• Genetic manipulation offers the potential to control and improve human traits, influencing future evolution.

• Discussion on the potential for illegal genes to proliferate online, raising concerns about monitoring and control.
• Ethical implications of genetic manipulation to create superior humans, drawing parallels to historical attempts like Hitler's Aryan race.
• Reference to Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World" and the potential for dictatorships to exploit genetic engineering for creating obedient soldiers.

"How do you stop illegal genes from proliferating? But what about legal versions of it?"

• Raises the challenge of regulating genetic information in a digital age.

"Think about the horrors that Hitler created in Germany because he was trying to create the Aryan race."

• Highlights the historical dangers of genetic manipulation for eugenics.

• Exploration of genetic similarities between humans and chimpanzees.
• Discussion on the potential for creating hybrid species with enhanced human traits, touching on ethical concerns.

"We know the complete Genome of chimpanzees; we know the complete Genome of humans, and we look where they're different."

• Indicates the genetic closeness of humans and chimpanzees, opening possibilities for genetic manipulation.

"It is conceivable, though we can't do it today, conceivable that something like Planet of the Apes may be possible."

• Suggests the theoretical possibility of creating human-ape hybrids with enhanced traits.

• Emphasis on the ethical implications of transferring genes between species.
• Concerns about the use of animals in scientific experiments and the necessity of such studies.

"This is where ethics comes in. We're not there yet, but sooner or later, we will be at the point where we have to look at the ethics of what happens when we transfer genes between species."

• Highlights the need for ethical frameworks as genetic technologies advance.

• Explanation of string theory as a framework for understanding the universe, likening it to music.
• Description of subatomic particles as vibrations on tiny strings, with physics as harmonies and chemistry as melodies.

"The universe is music. The universe is created by vibrating things. Each vibration corresponds to a note."

• Illustrates the concept of the universe as a symphony of vibrating strings.

"Great theories are based on simple principles, concepts that you can see visually."

• Emphasizes the importance of simplicity and visual representation in scientific theories.

• Discussion on the universe's complexity and the role of constants like the speed of light and nuclear forces.
• The idea that the universe is finely tuned to allow for life, raising questions about its origins.

"The universe is based on a simple number of constants like the speed of light, the mass of a proton."

• Describes the foundational constants that make the universe habitable.

"The universe is tuned just right to allow for life."

• Suggests the precise conditions necessary for life to exist in the universe.

• Exploration of the probability of life in the universe, given the vast number of planets.
• Discussion on the possibility of intelligent life and the potential evolutionary bottlenecks.

"The probability of life in the galaxy is almost 100%."

• Argues for the likelihood of life existing elsewhere in the galaxy.

"Dinosaurs had 200 million years to become intelligent; none of them made it."

• Points out the rarity of intelligence even in long-standing species.

• The importance of developing a space program as a means of survival against existential threats.
• The concept of type one, two, and three civilizations and their capabilities.

"To have a space program could be an evolutionary bottleneck if your species does not develop a space program."

• Emphasizes the critical role of space exploration in a species' long-term survival.

"A type one civilization could deflect asteroids, deflect meteors; they're masters of their planet."

• Describes the capabilities of advanced civilizations in managing planetary threats.

• Discussion on the potential existence of type two civilizations, like those capable of building a Dyson Sphere.
• Speculation on the implications of contact with such civilizations.

"There's something called Tabby's Star that decreases in intensity by 20% periodically."

• Suggests the possibility of a Dyson Sphere indicating advanced extraterrestrial technology.

"There's no protocol for us to confront what happens when an extraterrestrial civilization lands on the planet Earth."

• Highlights the lack of preparedness for potential contact with extraterrestrial beings.

• Examination of reported UFO sightings and their implications for military and scientific investigation.
• The importance of credible evidence and the challenges of verifying UFO claims.

"These objects would be flying around not just one second or whatever."

• Indicates the persistence and frequency of UFO sightings reported by military personnel.

"Remarkable claims require remarkable proof."

• Stresses the need for substantial evidence to support extraordinary claims about UFOs and extraterrestrial life.