DeepSeek Shockwaves, Nvidia's Plunge, and Target's DEI Rollback

Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway discuss the challenges of managing elderly care, highlighting the complexities and costs involved, especially as life expectancy increases. They also explore the emergence of China's DeepSeek AI model, which is outperforming US competitors at a lower cost, causing market turbulence. The conversation touches on the potential acquisition of TikTok's global operations by Oracle and Microsoft, amid geopolitical tensions. They critique Target's withdrawal from DEI initiatives due to political pressures, and discuss the need for accountability in tech, particularly concerning AI's influence on vulnerable users. The episode concludes with reflections on the importance of remembering historical atrocities, like Auschwitz, to prevent future ones.

• The challenge of finding suitable living arrangements for elderly parents is a significant and complex issue.
• Facilities like the repurposed Fairfax Hotel offer elegant senior living solutions, but the process of selecting the right place is taxing.
• The transition involves considerations of nursing care, medical care, and levels of assistance required as parents age.

"It's really difficult because you have to figure out where to put them. The nursing care, the medical care. As people get older, you have to have things that have like graded. You just need a little help, more help, the most help, et cetera."

• The quote highlights the complexity and gradation of care needed for elderly parents, emphasizing the challenge in selecting appropriate facilities.

• Handling elderly parents often parallels parenting young children, requiring patience and negotiation.
• The emotional and logistical burden of elder care is significant, often requiring family collaboration.
• Resistance from elderly parents can complicate decisions, contrasting with the relative control parents have over children.

"With people who are actually legally can make their own decisions. It's very hard to just say, no. This is where you're living."

• This quote underscores the difficulty in managing elderly parents who can legally make their own choices, unlike children.

• Senior care facilities are economically robust businesses with high survival rates.
• The industry is often staffed by people from specific cultural backgrounds known for their caregiving nature, such as the Filipino community.
• The economics of senior care range from high-end facilities to more affordable options, reflecting diverse market demands.

"Seniors care facilities have a 90 plus percent... It's also disproportionately populated by people from the Philippines."

• The quote indicates the stability of the senior care industry and the cultural demographics of its workforce.

• DeepSeek, a new AI model from China, is causing significant concern in Silicon Valley and Wall Street due to its cost-effectiveness and performance.
• The model challenges US tech giants by operating at a fraction of the cost and using fewer high-end chips.
• The emergence of DeepSeek has led to a notable decline in stock prices for companies like Nvidia, Oracle, and Microsoft.

"DeepSeek is reportedly outperformed models from OpenAI, Meta and Anthropic in some third party tests and it operates at a fraction of the cost of those models using fewer high-end chips."

• This quote highlights DeepSeek's competitive performance and efficiency, which is unsettling US tech incumbents.

• The success of DeepSeek underscores the power of open-source models in advancing AI technology.
• Open-source frameworks allow for rapid innovation and adaptation, enabling models like DeepSeek to build on existing research.
• There is debate about the implications of open-source AI on national competitiveness and security.

"Deep Seek has profited from open research and open source... This is the power of open research and open source."

• The quote emphasizes the advantages of open-source development in fostering innovation and competition in AI.

• The introduction of DeepSeek has led to a significant market correction, affecting the valuations of major tech companies.
• The shift in AI infrastructure dynamics raises questions about the future of energy consumption and supply chain assumptions.
• Analysts predict a bifurcation in the AI market, with a division between high-end, sophisticated models and more accessible, cost-effective solutions.

"The correction here is like it's taken them back three months and all of the stocks that have crashed, quote unquote crashed, are only up 70% for the year now, not 98."

• This quote provides context for the market reaction to DeepSeek, indicating a recalibration rather than a collapse.

• Discussion on the benefits and drawbacks of social media, highlighting open-source models like Llama as beneficial for technological advancements, especially in China.
• Open-source models are seen as a way for countries to keep up with technological advancements without heavy investments in proprietary technology.

"One thing that social media sucks most of the time, but there's a lot of great things called like use chatgpt, use this. And they tell you how to do things like put your deck in and here's the seven things you ask it and it improves it."

• Social media platforms provide resources and tutorials on leveraging AI tools, enhancing productivity and creativity.

"These open source models have been a boon for China for sure in keeping up."

• Open-source models allow countries like China to advance technologically by providing access to cutting-edge technology without the need for proprietary solutions.

• Speculation on whether the current market trends indicate a significant correction in the stock market, with potential impacts on the US economy.
• Concerns about large companies' influence on the economy and the potential for a market crash if these companies face downturns.

"It'll be interesting to see how the market reacts. Is this the beginning of a massive correction that will infect the entire NASDAQ, the entire S and P?"

• There is uncertainty about the future of the stock market and whether current trends will lead to a significant economic correction.

"If they sneeze, the US economy is going to catch a cold right now because the stock market's going to crash."

• The interconnectedness of large corporations and the economy suggests that their financial health is crucial to economic stability.

• Overview of recent trade tensions between the US and Colombia, including threats of tariffs and diplomatic standoffs.
• Discussion on the symbolic nature of certain political actions and their potential long-term consequences on international relations.

"President Trump almost began the first trade war of his term this week, and the US And Colombia spent most of Sunday in a standoff effort."

• Political tensions between the US and Colombia nearly escalated into a trade war, highlighting the fragile nature of international relations.

"This is sort of unnecessarily coarse and cruel."

• Criticism of the harsh methods used in political maneuvers, suggesting that they create unnecessary enemies and damage diplomatic relations.

• Examination of potential deals involving Oracle and other companies to take over TikTok's global operations, with concerns about Chinese approval.
• Discussion on the strategic importance of TikTok and the complexities of negotiating with China.

"Oracle and a group of investors including Microsoft, are reportedly in talks to take over global operations at TikTok."

• Major tech companies are involved in discussions to acquire TikTok, reflecting the app's significant value and strategic importance.

"Has anyone actually heard from the CCP? Are the Chinese interested in actually approving this deal?"

• The ultimate decision on TikTok's future lies with Chinese authorities, emphasizing the geopolitical complexities involved.

• Analysis of Meta's significant increase in capital expenditures to expand data centers for AI development.
• Comparison of current tech investments to historical technological achievements, illustrating the scale of current AI investments.

"Meta's capital expenditures are between 60 and $65 billion this year, a huge jump from 40 in 2024."

• Meta's substantial increase in spending highlights the company's commitment to advancing its AI capabilities.

"Between Amazon, Alphabet, Meta, and Microsoft, they're expected to spend, I think it's over $300 billion in CapEx this year."

• The combined capital expenditures of major tech companies on AI and data centers represent a modern technological "moonshot," comparable to historical achievements like the moon landing.

• Target has decided to end its DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) goals and a program focused on carrying more products from black and minority-owned businesses.
• This decision comes amidst a backdrop of legal challenges against DEI initiatives, with some companies maintaining their DEI efforts while others retreat.
• The debate around DEI is nuanced, with arguments about the necessity and extent of such initiatives in both corporate and educational settings.

"Target is one of the latest companies to hop on the anti-DEI train. They got spooked because they had some gay flags up and it made their CEO Brian Cornell into a Gian Bryant wimp."

• This quote highlights the pressure and backlash Target faced over its DEI initiatives, leading to its decision to roll back these efforts.

"Costco said 98% of shareholders voted against a proposal to review risk to its DEI programs. Same thing with Apple."

• This quote illustrates that not all companies are retreating from DEI initiatives, with some, like Costco and Apple, receiving strong shareholder support to continue these programs.

• The discussion on DEI is multifaceted, involving corporate responsibility, legal implications, and societal values.
• There is a tension between companies' rights to choose their DEI policies and the perceived overreach of DEI initiatives in certain contexts.

"I think companies or private companies should do what they want. I think there are laws to protect."

• This quote reflects the belief that companies should have the autonomy to decide on their DEI policies, balanced by legal protections against discrimination.

"DEI for the most part on campus has gone way out of control. And you typically have DEI initiatives at the most diverse, equitable, and inclusive places on earth."

• This quote suggests that DEI initiatives may be excessive in some educational institutions, questioning the necessity of extensive DEI apparatus.

• DEI initiatives aim to create more equitable environments, but they also face criticism for being used as political tools or becoming overly prescriptive.
• The conversation around DEI extends beyond race and gender to include age, political affiliation, and other diversity dimensions.

"It is not horrible to want to have more equitable for lots of different people because they've gamed the system for themselves for so so long."

• This quote underscores the importance of striving for equity across various societal groups, challenging the status quo that has historically favored certain demographics.

"The directionality is we want a more diverse group of people. And I don't just mean gender, I don't just mean race, I mean age. I mean political affiliation."

• This quote emphasizes the broader scope of DEI, advocating for diversity in many forms to strengthen organizations and society.

• Character AI is facing a lawsuit after a 14-year-old boy allegedly committed suicide following interactions with a chatbot.
• The company is defending itself by invoking First Amendment protections, while critics argue that dangerous speech, especially involving minors, should not be protected.

"Character AI's lawyers say the platform is protected by First Amendment. They're also arguing users' First Amendment rights would be violated, not the company's if the suit succeeds."

• This quote outlines Character AI's legal defense strategy, focusing on First Amendment rights to shield the company from liability.

"This is not free speech, this is dangerous speech. And especially when it's kids under 18 years old."

• This quote challenges the notion of free speech in cases involving harm to minors, advocating for accountability in such situations.

• There is a call for regulatory changes to address the responsibilities of platforms that host potentially harmful content, especially for minors.
• The debate includes reevaluating Section 230 protections and implementing age-specific liabilities for digital platforms.

"Simply put, all algorithmically elevated content should lose or be absolved of 230 protection."

• This quote suggests that platforms should not be shielded by Section 230 when their algorithms elevate harmful content, advocating for greater accountability.

"If your platform is readily available to anyone under the age of 16, we need age gating and also age liability."

• This quote highlights the need for age-specific regulations to protect minors from harmful online interactions and content.

• There are ongoing efforts to challenge the legality of same-sex marriage, with some states attempting to bring cases to the Supreme Court.
• These efforts are seen as part of a broader agenda to reverse landmark decisions like Obergefell v. Hodges, which legalized same-sex marriage nationwide.

"Idaho is the latest. Trying to push up against current law. Trying to get the Supreme Court law that passed. Gay marriage, it's Oberg."

• This quote identifies Idaho as one of the states actively seeking to challenge same-sex marriage laws, aiming to revisit the Supreme Court's decision.

"They're going for this to try to get it to the Supreme Court so they can do something like they just did."

• This quote warns of the strategic efforts to bring same-sex marriage cases to the Supreme Court, drawing parallels to the overturning of Roe v. Wade.

• The discussion emphasizes the importance of remembering the Holocaust and other genocides, such as those in Armenia, Cambodia, Rwanda, and Ukraine, to prevent history from repeating itself.
• The decline in Holocaust survivors makes it crucial to continue commemorating these events to educate future generations.
• The conversation highlights the dangers of rhetoric that echoes pre-World War II Germany and the need for vigilance against such ideologies today.

"The King of England, Macron showed up, The Chancellor of Germany showed up. And I think it's important, and I do. They also think it brings attention to other genocides, whether it's Armenia, Cambodia, genocide in Ukraine."

• This quote underscores the significance of global leaders acknowledging the Holocaust and other genocides, reinforcing the need for international awareness and remembrance.

"Our instincts towards rage and demonization and perceiving enemies as a means of protection, it has not evolved to industrial production."

• The quote reflects on the human tendency to demonize perceived enemies and how this instinct, combined with industrial capabilities, led to historical atrocities like the Holocaust.

"Today marks the 80th anniversary of the liberation by the Soviet army of Auschwitz. And I think it's a win that our society still says we need to recognize this and we need to pause."

• This quote highlights the importance of commemorating significant historical events like the liberation of Auschwitz to ensure collective memory and learning.

• The conversation critiques statements by influential figures that promote nationalistic and exclusionary ideologies, warning of their potential to incite division and violence.
• The speakers stress the importance of multiculturalism as a core aspect of American identity and caution against rhetoric that undermines it.

"When you talk about diminishing the power of multiculturalism, you're diluting what is America."

• This quote emphasizes that multiculturalism is fundamental to American culture and that rhetoric against it undermines the nation's identity.

"If this type of rhetoric continues to spin out of control and we continue to demonize people with the institutional production and tools we have at our disposal right now, it could make Auschwitz seem like a fucking garden party."

• The quote warns of the catastrophic potential of unchecked divisive rhetoric combined with modern technological capabilities.

• The discussion critiques the Democratic Party's response to the political climate, urging for more assertive and articulate leadership.
• The speakers call for investigations into potential misinformation campaigns and the need for accountability in political discourse.

"The Democrats need to find somebody who isn't day trading their stocks. Speaker Amitopelosi doesn't brighten a room by leaving it Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer."

• This quote criticizes the current Democratic leadership for lacking effective communication and leadership skills.

"I want her to under oath, tell us whether or not there's the corporation engaged in spinning up thousands of fake accounts to spread misinformation, trying to get one candidate elected."

• The quote calls for transparency and accountability regarding alleged misinformation campaigns and their influence on elections.

• The speakers discuss the influence of media figures and the "manosphere," highlighting the appeal of certain personalities to specific demographics.
• There is a recognition of the growing backlash against contemporary digital culture and the potential for new movements to arise in response.

"There literally are tens of millions of mostly young men who are like, I don't need some over educated liberal in New York telling me the day's news."

• This quote illustrates the appeal of relatable media figures to audiences who feel disconnected from traditional news sources.

"There's going to be a kind of no phones offline movement. There's going to be people that try to build a new version of the non commercial Internet."

• The quote predicts a backlash against the current digital landscape, with movements aiming to create alternative, less commercialized online spaces.